Quote from: franky1 on April 21, 2016, 07:22:23 PM

Quote from: AgentofCoin on April 21, 2016, 07:04:23 PM

Quote from: franky1 on April 21, 2016, 05:58:13 PM

Quote from: Lauda on April 21, 2016, 04:58:14 PM

Quote from: mayax on April 21, 2016, 04:52:48 PM

All the countries have laws regarding to financial transactions and they require a financial license for the Bitcoin exchangers. It doesn't matter if you are in USA or China.

If Bitcoin isn't defined as money in their country, exactly why would they need such a license? Bitcoin is still in the 'grey zone' for a lot of places.

...
if however they are just swapping bitcoin for altcoins(no fiat at all). then and only then do they not need a licence.

Franky just so you know, according to the FinCEN docs that Mayax are providing, if you interpret them as he is,
then bitcoin for altcoin buy/sells or vice versa also requires a money transmission license.

Quote

Definitions of User, Exchanger, and Administrator
This guidance refers to the participants in generic virtual currency arrangements, using the terms "user," "exchanger," and "administrator."6 A user is a person that obtains virtual currency to purchase goods or services.7 An exchanger is a person engaged as a business in the exchange of virtual currency for real currency, funds, or other virtual currency. An administrator is a person engaged as a business in issuing (putting into circulation) a virtual currency, and who has the authority to redeem (to withdraw from circulation) such virtual currency. (Emphasis Added)

So, if they wanted to argue it, they could interpret it to say things like Poloniex or Shapeshift are also money transmitters.

shapeshift does not touch the dollar.. nor is it even based in USA. this american law does not apply to shapeshift.

though poloniex does not touch fiat, it however does 'reside' in USA so they would need some legal clarification.
however. "virtual currencies" as noted in your documents are electronic forms of fiat. the laws around blockchain currencies are still not defined.
these virtual currencies are what paypal, western union use(USD) and so defining if blockchain currencies are in that remit, still is a grey area.

but overall i can easily see poloniex being on a possible US hitlist.

but if you were to try to think that a MSB was just someone that transmitted any type of currency of value (bitcoin included) then every bitcoin user would need a licence.

im sorry but in prison the inmates do not need a MSB licence for trading cigarettes (their currency of value)
im sorry but in a relationship, women do not need a MSB licence for trading sexual favours (their currency) for getting their spouses to do things around the house.
im sorry but businesses do not need a MSB licence for trading fiat for their staffs labour. as time is a thing of value too.

a good lawyer could rip apart the argument of what is a virtual currency, what is a money substitute etc.

remember.. a paypal USD is not the same as a bank note or a dollar metal coin (you cannot pay a court fine using paypal)

Quote

Currency vs. Virtual Currency

FinCEN's regulations define currency (also referred to as "real" currency) as "the coin and paper money of the United States or of any other country that is designated as legal tender and that [ii] circulates and [iii] is customarily used and accepted as a medium of exchange in the country of issuance."3 In contrast to real currency, "virtual" currency is a medium of exchange that operates like a currency in some environments, but does not have all the attributes of real currency. In particular, virtual currency does not have legal tender status in any jurisdiction. This guidance addresses "convertible" virtual currency. This type of virtual currency either has an equivalent value in real currency, or acts as a substitute for real currency.

1BTC does not act as a substitute for dollar. there is nothing to prove that 1btc is 1 dollar or that bitcoin should be treated as only being used as a substitute for a dollar. (think of it as if bitcoin was a starbucks coffee.. changing value every year and measured in different vale and different international currencies).
bitcoin is a currency, but not money. its an asset currency basically

so its still not clear. however its best to be cautious

Yes, are under this law. They are saying: "We are a US-based cryptocurrency exchange". More than that, USA reserves the right to go after any company who is doing businesses with US citizens if they don't have financial license in US. See the example with Mtgox and Dwolla. US gov seized the Mt gox funds from Dwolla even MT Gox was registered in Japan because MtGox was doing exchanges with US citizens.
Yes, this is the law

Paypal is a payment service provider based on real currency while the exchangers are virtual currency exchanges. Both of these businesses follow to the same MSB law. Virtual money is a commodity(like gold) and you need a financial license to make transactions between fiat and ANY e-currency (like Bitcoin).