Quote from: BADecker on April 26, 2016, 02:55:44 AM

Quote from: organofcorti on April 25, 2016, 10:43:34 PM

Quote from: BADecker on April 25, 2016, 01:15:24 PM

Quote from: Tusk on April 25, 2016, 10:39:52 AM

That still does not explain how something can make itself, inserting a "god" is even more ludicrous because there is no evidence for a god. It is more logical to conclude the universe has made itself and like us is alive, we and everything in it are expressions of the living whole. Like it we make ourselves (we evolve both physically and consciously) through our conscious choices that are influenced by our environment and those choices in turn influence our future.

This is why IMHO The most succinct definition is :-

Quote

Universe is the aggregate of all humanity's consciously apprehended and communicated non simultaneous and only partially overlapping experiences. - Buckminster Fuller

To say it simply, we don't really have a concept for how something can make itself if it can. Such a concept is not part of our universe. This doesn't mean that there is not something outside of the universe. All it means is that it would be so different that even the word "different" wouldn't apply.

Proof for God

Everything operates by the fundamental law of cause and effect, which is upheld by Newton's 3rd Law. This means that even your synapses in your brain fire because of things that made them fire. We don't have free will scientifically speaking. The thing that looks like free will is programming through cause and effect. This is scientific law.

Complexity is worldwide. All the scientists, and almost everyone else, know it. The things that we see about the rest of the universe show complexity as well. So far, the complexity is beyond our understanding. Whatever caused this complexity must have been more complex.

Entropy is universal. Entropy is scientific. This means that there must have been a beginning of everything. If there was no beginning, that is, if everything had always been, entropy suggests that everything would have dispersed and diffused long ago, so that there would be no complexity whatever.

In other words, Something caused a beginning time. That something caused all the complexity. That Something was far more complex than anything that we understand - consider how deeply complex cause and effect is and how it is withstanding entropy's dissolution. That Something fits our definition of "God."

We see no evidence in the universe of anything making itself without something else causing it.

There is no scientific evidence that we grow in any way without cause and effect making us grow the way we do. In other words, everything, even our maturing, and our intelligence, and our thinking, are all pre-programmed.

Cool

That's not a proof with any scientific evidence. That means it's not a scientific proof. In fact, in absence of any experimental evidence, it's just illogical armchair philosophy consisting of self contradictory statements and which redefines common terms while inventing others (eg your previously posted "Complex universe law").

Do you see how blessed you are? Neither God, nor even I, am forcing you to see the evidence and proof so that you just have to believe.

The thing that we are doing is giving and showing you all kinds of places you can go to, and all kinds of topics that you can search on, so that you can see the evidence and proof for your self.

The choice is yours for now. However, at the judgment you will no longer have a choice regarding realizing that God exists. You will be forced to understand that God exists. You will be forced by the strength of Spirit that God is, to face Him Spirit to spirit. At that time there will be no doubt on your part. As you do not believe in Him now, so you will not believe in Him then. You will know.

Words are reasonably easy for both of us in this life. So, they don't mean much. At the time of the resurrection and the final judgment, you will remember how I warned you.

Cool

So you're giving up on "scientific evidence" of god's existence, then?