Quote from: r0ach on May 13, 2016, 12:59:27 PM

Anonymint is totally overlooking counterparty risk of banks here and it makes 0 sense to me. Physical cash, Bitcoin, and gold is the only three things I'd want to hold during it. You cannot play carpet bagger and "buy the dip" of whatever asset using physical cash or gold because...you simply can't. You're basically advocating storing all your money in a bank as digital fiat of no value during the biggest financial crash in history with the objective of day trading it, which doesn't sound like a good idea to me.

I never said you should sell and wait for the dip. That is your decision to make. I also didn't say a V crash is certain, but rather contingent.

I didn't even get into counterparty risk of where to store your alternative value if one chooses to exit Bitcoin now in anticipation of lower prices later. You could definitely hold physical dollars ($20s not $100s) and probably be sure of being able to convert those back into BTC. But there are issues such as how much cash you can convert at a time and that does move you back through the anti-money laundering rigmarole.

Other options are to short Bitcoin. But timing is very critical and also exchange risk.

Personally if I still had any money (which I don't!) I would sell some BTC and hold dollars. Then I would prepare to buy gold < $1050 (probably $850ish) with the cash. Down the line I could convert that gold back to crypto again. If I got lucky to buy BTC < $150 with any of that cash, then I would do that.

In short, I'd diversify.

Not selling any of this deadcat bounce from $230 up to $470, is I think foolish. Always sell some of the rallies. Never HODL everything, except for heirlooms.

Quote from: freshman777 on May 13, 2016, 05:25:26 PM

Quote from: sockpuppet1 on May 13, 2016, 05:08:43 PM

Quote from: freshman777 on May 13, 2016, 02:24:22 PM

Quote from: sockpuppet1 on May 13, 2016, 12:46:32 PM

Look guys it is very simple. Bitcoin is not the fiat that everyone uses as their unit-of-account, thus fiat up, Bitcoin down just like every other speculative (hot money) asset in a liquidity crunch.

People invest in Bitcoin to make money, not to hold it as a heirloom. Thus when shorting becomes the new profit trend, the speculators chase the trend. The loaners of BTC raise their rates. Everybody is happy. Bitcoin goes down.

2008 took silver from $21 to $9. Bitcoin is more volatile than silver.

Come on guys, Bitcoin is not cash. That is the dumbest thing I've ever read. Bitcoin is a crypto gambler's addiction. Period. You guys need to get out and get some fresh air and look at yourselves more objectively.

Not using as a unit of account but using as a store of value IS holding it as a heirloom. Long shot speculation? Yes, like most everything else.

No; heirloom is defined as something that you pass from generation to next, such as collectibles and include gold coins.

Everyone is holding Bitcoin in expectation of making more money on it, not because Bitcoin is their unit-of-account. Nobody uses Bitcoin as their unit-of-account, except for as a reserve currency for crypto gambling & speculation, then they do count how many BTC they gained or lost. But no one is using it as a unit-of-account for the major expenditures of their life. No one. Not one. (and anyone who is, is tinfoil hat insane)

How do you know this?

Nobody uses gold coins as their unit-of-account for the major expenditures of their life, they hold gold to pass from generation to next or exchange for fiat when they need to buy something. Why do you think some people don't hold Bitcoin for the same reasons?

Because everyone knows they can't trust a new untested technology. Gold has a couple 1000s years of reliability under its belt.

And people don't hold gold as an heirloom because it is a unit-of-account. They do it because it feels impressive in their hand, and they feel confident it will represent a store-of-value that will outlive their offspring. No one can claim that with a straight face about BitCON.

People are holding BTC in the expectation it will be worth more and spendable on the Internet during and beyond the crisis we face. This is why Bitcoin needs to decline to $50 in order to scare some of them into selling. Once all the weakest of the strong hands have capitulated and their confidence broken, then we will be ready for a new speculative fever in BitCON again.

We need many people to hate/dismiss Bitcoin again like they did after the crash from $30, to reset the speculative opportunity again. Speculative pumps are created by people who can buy very cheap. Remember this, BitCON is not an ideology. It is a speculation. We tend to forget why people buy BitCON (because they conflate a lot of ideological tinfoil hat crap into their muddled thought process[1]).

Ditto gold.

I still think the low is not yet done. But I might be wrong.

[1] Look I used to do that too. I now realize why I lost my 18,000oz of silver was partially due to being irrational about ideological tinfoil hat type fears and thought processes. I also lost it for other unrelated reasons, but the tinfoil hat delusion shit was one of the reasons.

Quote from: r0ach on May 13, 2016, 06:10:23 PM

I think Anonymint is biased against Bitcoin due to living in the Philippines. I can live entirely on Bitcoin in the US no problem, while attempting to do the same thing with gold would be an act of comedy.

Your rent is not priced in BTC. Please look up the definition of unit-of-account.

Quote from: freshman777 on May 13, 2016, 06:05:30 PM

Gold has been banned many times in many countries, including the beacon of liberty

That doesn't stop me from handing it down to my offspring as an heirloom. Eventually it becomes legal again.

Gold can't go "poof". Bitcoin can, just by the future government control over the protocol is able to turn off your number. You'll never get it back.

Quote from: freshman777 on May 13, 2016, 06:32:50 PM

Quote from: sockpuppet1 on May 13, 2016, 06:24:06 PM

That doesn't stop me from handing it down to my offspring as an heirloom. Eventually it becomes legal again.

Gold can't go "poof". Bitcoin can.

I agree, gold is less of a gamble. It still is not a unit-of-account anywhere in the world and it can be confiscated, albeit not as easily as Bitcoin.

And Bitcoin has more upside, but from $50 it has 10X more upside than from $500.

Don't pretend has suddenly become less volatile. It is only a $6 bullion mcap.