Quote from: organofcorti on May 21, 2016, 10:38:07 AM

Quote from: d57heinz on May 21, 2016, 10:16:46 AM

Quote from: organofcorti on May 21, 2016, 04:24:10 AM

Quote from: philipma1957 on May 21, 2016, 03:44:13 AM

Quote from: organofcorti on May 21, 2016, 03:04:32 AM

Quote from: d57heinz on May 20, 2016, 06:10:45 PM

Quote from: organofcorti on May 20, 2016, 02:06:57 PM

Quote from: fanatic26 on May 20, 2016, 01:51:19 AM

If someone takes the time to do the math on all that information they freely share, they might see where the problem lies. Like an almost exactly 10% less payout that expected over the life of the pool...

I don't see anything like that when I do the stats. How exactly are you calculating this?

http://organofcorti.blogspot.com/2016/02/detecting-unintentional-block.html
well there is the post that you bring it to attention.. but that was only after we got shafted from slush.. here is a look at slush stats when the shit hit the fan.. There is a whole sluice of issues slush had with the relay network then a ddos for allowing vote to 8 mb then the block withholder.. All that happen back to back.>

Per your guide..

http://organofcorti.blogspot.com/2016/01/january-17th-2016-mining-pool-statistics.html

i dont have time atm to dig any further.. all pools need to show like phil said. all blocks and then a gradual decrease to last 5 or 10. Kano sets an example how simple is best... That lost btc can never be replaced unless the Genesis mining comes forth and wants to save their reputation.. Ive already tweeted to them >> but of course no reply.. Something not taught in school and apparently not by parents is how to own up to your mistakes.. Its turning this world into a pile of crap if you ask me.

Best Regards
d57heinz

BTW.. Kano i didnt know that it was genesis.. i have given you shit in past but that is before i realized the pattern of honesty and transparency from you that is so lacking in this industry.. this space needs more like you for sure.. THankful for that.

Please don't lie. I'm well aware of what I wrote, and I've never written that there has been a 10% loss over the life of the pool.

Do you have lifetime number? Or any long term numbers for them.

98.2% of expected over the life of the pool.

Orphans were more common when the pool started, and tx fees (included in the calculation) were often zero at that time, so 1.8% down over the lifetime of the pool is acceptable. At ~62% the CDF is certainly not unusual.

Code:

Pool reported statistics since 2010

Pool No.Blocks orphans luck CDF %Profitability
1: DeepBit 31218 115 1.01 82.7% 101%
2: Discus Fish 28117 197 1 25.5% 100%
3: Slush 26680 319 1 61.6% 98.4%
4: GHash.IO 23371 314 1.04 100.0% 91.1%
5: AntPool 16261 178 1 27.5% 101%
6: BTC Guild 13595 86 - - -
7: 50BTC.com 12060 218 - - -
8: Eligius 11403 235 1.03 99.6% 91%
9: EclipseMC 6561 30 0.72 0.0% 84.1%
10: BitMinter 6483 306 1.02 97.5% 107%
11: Ozcoin 4855 22 1.07 100.0% 98%
12: MTRed 2205 17 0.99 31.4% 99.1%
13: p2Pool 2198 41 - - -
14: Polmine 2069 25 1.1 100.0% 88.4%
15: Mineb.tc 1692 38 1.02 78.9% 94.4%
16: Itzod 1379 6 1.01 69.3% 102%
17: Kano.is 909 8 0.93 1.7% 108%
18: Bitparking 633 19 1.15 100.0% 95.2%
19: HHTT 632 1 - - -
20: Triplemining 508 0 1.04 84.3% 92.1%
21: BTCMP 390 12 0.89 1.2% 85.6%
22: BTCDig 34 1 1.01 54.9% 84.1%
23: MMPool 33 0 0.95 40.7% 94.2%

Per your guide organ.. A pool has to allow a miner to go thru what should have been ten blocks to be able to detect a block with holder.. So yea 250 btc at least. More info to come..

2. How can a pool detect block withholding efficiently?
All the suggestions I've read depend on waiting until a miner has returned a sufficient amount of work to have solved on average(yes but with bad luck it could have been double average or triple. who is to know for sure Ive got data to back up when this started) ten blocks but has actually solved none. This has a lower tail Poisson probability of exp(-10) ~ 0.000045399, so this would happen by chance only once in every 22026 user accounts.

Unfortunately this means losing 10 blocks worth of credit for the pool, and depending on how the pool treats the loss, it may mean a loss for honest miners too. However there are more efficient methods to detect unintentional block withholders (and since an intentional block withholder can simply have many different user accounts in parallel or sequence, it may not be possible to detect an intentional block withholder at all).
http://organofcorti.blogspot.com/2016/02/detecting-unintentional-block.html

Here is where slush finally detected it.. https://slushpool.com/news/2016/02/06/recent-low-luck-information/

And nowhere there did I say that there has been a ten percent loss over the life of the pool. Another forum member just made that up but now you're saying it's something I wrote? Nothing in the quotes backs up the claim.

Please just post a retraction.

Ok i agree that you never said that.... i think the confusion there was year stats of pool and lifetime. not sure when that got mixed up.. thank you for clearing that up.. Knowing the exact amount of damage done is next to impossible atm because that would require being able to predict the next block.

All pools should post the lifetime stats to their website.. If they dont know how to do that then they shouldnt be running a pool or have something to hide!

as far as the genesis mining.. I havent been able to tie them to slush with any post or info online.> What i have found on GM and its business is rather sad indeed. typical of this space unfortunately.>> If they were the ones that did this to slush i wouldnt expect any kind of compensation whatsoever..

Honestly its not about who did it or any of all that.. Stats at this point dont really matter as slush said he has fixed the problem.. The problems this pool has/had is its lack of awareness/transparency that the owner gave to the miners that support(ed) him. No responses from him on fb or here when a good number of us where noticing the drastic drop in pool performance when that 10 ph miner jumped on and off back in sept or oct( i dont have time to dig back at my posts) of 2015 thru to jan 2016.. If he had just addressed our concerns back then i think it would have went a long way in keeping his userbase.. He sided with the miner(corporate interest vs the community) and allowed them to profit. If i wrote mining code for my own pool and put 10 ph to it not knowing it would find blocks i sure as hell wouldnt go to the community and expect them to compensate me if after 3 months it still hasnt produced.. Now on that line of thinking i dont know how the person slush was in contact with can feel good about what he did to slush and the miners on his pool.. I dont want to beat a dead horse any longer. enough has been said and i think people are waking up to the fact that Kano actually is trying to make this a community feeling at least as long as we can .. But sadly big industry will push out all the creativity that started in this space and we will be left with the same old same old because its ran by the same ignorant people that put this world in the shit hole it is..

Anyway enough about that ..

Have a great day everyone.
Best Regards
d57heinz