Quote from: Korbman on February 01, 2013, 05:57:13 PM

Quote from: Flying Hellfish on February 01, 2013, 05:17:46 PM

Quote from: Korbman on February 01, 2013, 02:10:52 PM

Quote from: Flying Hellfish on February 01, 2013, 01:54:24 PM

The way all ASIC vendors so far have forced the community to shoulder ALL the risk basically is unbelievable

How so? The only one that's done it so far is Avalon...

Any company that takes pre-order money for a product that simply does not exist yet is putting all the risk on buyer.

So, I'm assuming all the risk when I go over to GameStop and preorder the next latest title 6-12 months in advance?

I understand the point your trying to make, but if refunds are a feasible option for the ~~customer~~ "investor", then the risk is limited. Hence why Avalon is the riskiest investment opportunity out there right now...once you give them your money, that's it..nothing else you can do except wait for your product.
At least with BFL (and bASIC there for a while) you can get a refund immediately. With ASICMiner you can just sell your shares (though I'm not sure how liquid they are).

This is my point the risk is there and the customer took it small, big w/e the customer floated the risk thats all i am saying at this point. There isnt a guarentee of refunds hence why i belive it should have been called an investment and not a pre-order

I disagree about the gaming analogy, you are buying a game for entertainment (more like buying movie passes or concert tickets) and there is virtually no chance of "making an ROI". Games are designed and sold as entertainment ASIC hardware is not sold for entertainment. Also when I purchase entertainment products I probably wouldnt have used that money to invest with so I dont care how long it takes to get the game to me. If someone used the money for investing in bitcoins instead of hardware they would be in for a nice little ROI currently, but alas the vendors had the money tied up in R&D so I lost the oppotunity to make money. This is the risk you as a customer took all under the guise of a pre-order. Just fucking tell me I am investing that is all I would have asked. If I wanted smoke blown up my ass I would be at home with a pack of cigarettes and a short length of hose.

Just because Avalon is/was the riskiest does not mean there is/was no risk from the others.

I have a feeling that so far anyone who paid bASIC in BTC and has yet to receive their refund is feeling like they took a lot of risk (and lost) at this point. Just because some vendors honoured refunds does not mean there was no risk in the first place (there was never a guarentee refunds would be honored hence the risk)

I get what they were doing what I don't like is how they sugar coated it calling pre-orders. What all the vendors have done is ask for an investement/ interest free loan from the community but called it pre-orders..

By the way why didnt they go to a bank or an investement firm for R&D costs? I am guessing an interest free loan from the community was much easier to get and much more economically appealing...