Quote from: BitUsher on May 28, 2016, 11:02:44 PM

Quote from: jbreher on May 28, 2016, 10:52:05 PM

1) You said "the increase is very small", correct? Accordingly, I interpreted this as you agreeing there was indeed an increase. In what way is that misrepresenting your statement? I am just trying to cut through the fog to figure out exactly _where_ our disagreements actually lie, in this thread full of shillery on both sides of the argument. Do you now deny there is an increase in bandwidth and storage required with vs. without The SegWit Omnibus Changeset for representation of each transaction? And if you do, then by what mechanism are the main chain transaction structures correlated to the witness chain transaction structures?

Segwit is a necessary for Schnorr signatures which do indeed reduce Bandwidth and storage(far more than what is added with segwit).

While that may be, I was unaware that this Schnorr signature feature was a part of The SegWit Omnibus Changeset. Last I heard, the devs concluded 'expect BIP within next year or so'. No?

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Additionally, there are greater concerns than storage costs and bandwidth for scalability such as eliminating the quadratic cost in transaction signature hashing and reducing UTXO bloat.

At his point in time, I am unaware of anyone reporting the quadratic cost in signature hashing as being a significant issue other than the one party who intentionally created a single-transaction maxblocksize block to perform an experiment that ended up as nothing but fodder for concern-trolling. Either way, there are other solutions to this issue. I think the free market would solve this on its own. What incentive does a miner have to continue hashing on a block that it knows is going to take multiple block intervals to hash? The miners' own self-interest would cause them to orphan that block and get back to hashing. Whatever - that's peripheral to the proximate discussion.

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Are you trying to insinuate that the package of benefits that Segwit provides is worse than the slight increase in overhead to bandwidth and storage costs?

No. I am trying to cut through the FUD. This entire argument has had each point meme-ified, to the point where a large number of people are under the impression that SegWit itself (as merely part of The SegWit Omnibus Changeset) reduces the storage and bandwidth demands upon non-mining, fully-validating nodes, and thereby through this mechanism increases decentralization. Which is demonstrably false.

While I am a 'simple maxblocksize bump now' kinda guy, I acknowledge there is a lot to like in the SegWit Omnibus Changeset. Unfortunately, also a lot to loathe. So I will continue to try to publicly pull back the layers of falsehoods being circulated regarding the bigblock now position.