Quote from: digicidal on June 01, 2016, 03:24:28 AM

Quote from: dzimbeck on May 31, 2016, 10:43:19 PM

More or less coins has absolutely nothing to do with utility, volume, market cap or network effect.

Its just a number. What matters is the other elements. Control of supply with pegging is done to eliminate the need for a market maker. To have supply move up and down to match volume and demand.

The us dollar is a racket, so who cares what its value is. Because there are guys who have infinite spending power, so thats why we use crypto.

I completely agree with you on the mintage having no bearing on utility, volume, etc. And I would even argue that the idea of spending 20K BAY for a pair of shoes makes more sense than paying .011342 of a BTC for a pair (at least psychologically).

The part that I find ridiculous is the defense arguments of population or the numbers of USD in existence. Even if there were 500 billion people on the planet... there's still only a few thousand that hold BAY - so that's irrelevant.

As far as the USD being a racket (which I would definitely agree with you on that) - can you really say other than 'potential' that crypto has thus far proven to be any different? If you replaced 'coin devs' with 'federal reserve' - you'd once again have a group of people that have infinite spending power providing a 'widget' representing whatever value they grant to it, only as long as it is granted (and largely revocable at any time by them as well).

I believe crypto in general has great potential for disrupting the established concepts of exchange and commerce... but especially for those that still hold IPO coins - it's pretty disingenuous to cavalierly disregard any statement of caution with "but the USD is a scam and we're totally different".

At least I would add "we CAN be different" - only history will tell whether that is truly the case. Regardless, I'm delighted to see the massive amount of work that's being done in crypto in general and in the BAY/BLK circles specifically. I certainly don't mean to diminish the work and vision you and others have demonstrated in these regards, simply stating that we're miles from the finish line (and realistically not more than a few steps out of the gate). I just read far too much religious zealotry on coin pages too often and so little calm rationality in regards to the actual application and promotion of crypto. I was certainly drawn in by the concept and potential back in the early BTC days and it's that same thing that's kept me here (and in BLK) despite all the drama and scamming.

One thing I have learned however, is that the best investments and trades I've made are always the ones made with skepticism and doubt and the disastrous ones are always those made on emotion and blind faith.

I'd much rather bet on the 'dark horse' that BAY has become now than on the 'golden child' it was initially marketed as being... as it is, my optimism for BAY will always be somewhat dampened by the fact that I didn't act on my skepticism initially.

To those who did, and are possibly coming back and considering investing in BAY now... I can see far, far less downside and an absolute crap-load of upside potential. For the rest of us it's a much less 'unbridled optimism' that drives our continued investment. Wink

Cheers!

Thanks really interesting post. One thing I want to remind everyone here of, we are not promoting Bay but existing software, nor are we pulling at anyones heart strings, or pushing an ideology(except for the occasional opinionated rant such as the one below, and DDE).
Only things being done here is honoring the original agreement to work on the software and complete the tools in this coin as investors were told they would get. And hopefully extending this softwares influence and reach.

And there is an ideology but not one that is being sold per se... and that ideology is making crypto independent. Allowing people to decentralize all aspects of crypto by promoting good ideas. DDE and Pegging. If crypto is to become a tool used for good then those two ideas must survive. Most importantly, DDE must survive. Pegging perhaps being the second most important crypto tool. Notary and smart contracts being the next most important.

Actually I never would claim that Crypto was different from USD. As many people on here who have heard from me in the past, the reason I developed Halo was to protect people from Bitcoin. It was obvious that Bitcoin was a project that would soon lead to more loss of human rights. It was clearly made in a compartmentalized manner, reeks of government involvement. So we only chart our own course, because the tool itself was okay, the divergence is what we want to do with the tool. The destiny of crypto depends not on "which coin will be successful" but "which IDEAS will be successful". Just like a knife or a pen, it can be used in many ways good or bad or neutral. Thus, Halo has the capability to create 2 party contracts where a person could get off of (corrupt government coin) and get on a network that has the ability to form private agreements usurping totalitarian control. At least this was the motive. Another motive was the obvious fact that in an anarchy, only double deposit makes sense.

Although a lot of people think anarchy would result in more crime people tend to forget that the media and almost every film that comes out is completely violent. In fact, oddly enough nudity in movies is censored and violence is not. Every single news piece is propaganda without exception. Almost never do I see "feel good" news anymore. At least in the early 90s, 1 out of 10 stories were feel good. Now its zero.
So with that said, its probable that we are conditioned to think and be violent tacitly and fear loss of government. Which in truth only gives them full control of our minds. Something some of us will never accept.

So with all the technology today, most of the best tech is hidden from the public, and yet decentralization flirts with the idea of a technological utopia of sorts where currencies are private, commodities are 3d printed (including for self defense) networks are meshed and food is grown in a decentralized futuristic way and so forth.

This is why only the idea of DDE must survive. The whole purpose of commercializing this project. To prevent deception using deposits and eliminating third parites who have no business or time or justification to meddle in the affiars of others.

Luckily and ironically, had it not been for Bob and the sabotage, I probably would never have proposed a pegging tool. Its original purpose was to simply protect investors from the bastards that started it. But after lots of discussions with colleagues and friends on slack, its clear that pegging is absolutely needed for crypto assets.

In some ways, it opened my eyes to how important pegging really is. Notice how even projects like Tether get a consistent volume? Pegging is needed, required and its the only tech that GUARANTEES cryptos survival.

This is perhaps exactly why crypto is permanently bullish. In fact, even crapcoins are bullish because of these technologies. Imagine, rolling pegs can make "Truckcoin" and "Elephantcoin" stabalize in value and even rise in value. And why not? Should a person not be allowed to work on a private project, seeking funding and creating value in their own project? If its an honest and motivated project, would their peers not invest in it?
Does it really matter if they premined it? After all people invest in stocks that the board of directors hold almost always 51% favorable stocks. Investors get a mere nothing fraction of the company.

Does anyone remember Enron? Or perhaps the obviously scandalous Facebook IPO. And yet, probably about 90% of the fortune 500 companies fix their stocks and prices. I bet some of the companies don't even exist. Much like some crypto assets.

In the end the only thing that differentiates a good coin from a bad one is the HONESTY of the people creating it. Users or coins are too quick to speculate, trusting "The DAO" or other projects not realizing the probability of deceptions, buying their own coins, stealing bitcoins from the till and taking advantage of peoples trust. Who is to say the "DAO" didn't give themselves tokens to sell or buy their own tokens with the Eth they already had.

This again is why DDE comes first, requiring deposits for trust. Forcing honesty among peers.
Its IS TRUE that most crypto systems are in fact equally corrupt to federal dollars. However, the whole purpose of pegging would make this somewhat irrelevant. If prices can remain stable and consistently match volume and demand then private parties can issue their own cryptocurrencies.

With pegging, its theoretically possible for a healthy market to sustain thousands of different coins, each one being healthy.
And so a coin only needs to be popular since a user of a coin would only need to concern himself with wether or not its popular enough to resell it at the fair market value (which is of course pegged).

Artificial price growth isn't even a bad thing with a rolling peg. If anything its good. A saavy investor would look at the project, its growth potential and popularity before investing in a coin that artificially grows its price.

The one thing that is absolutely painfully obvious is, the worlds corruption comes not from the technology we have access to, but the hearts of men which cannot be changed. Thus the only true "weapon of mass destruction" in this world is propaganda, capable of shaping beliefs. If anyone finds a way to decentralize the media, that would be the best technology on earth. But how to prevent the voice of propaganda, false news, fake coins, fake devs from infiltrating anything?

Dare I say fake math and fake science?! Do people even question what they learn in school? Why is material automatically accepted just because someone in a position of scientific authority deems the material to be honest and true?

If I remember correctly, we learned astronomy in a book, we never were told to watch the sunset. We were not asked to question the material. We learned chemistry in a book. We were given tests where we were not allowed to question the test material. And forced to answer exactly what the books told us or fail the test?!

We are not educated, we are TOLD. And by centralized sources at that. Almost nothing we were taught was true. In most cases, it turns out to be the opposite unfortunately.

Real schools would teach construction, farming, electronics, alchemy, sports, social skills, botany, etc. And they wouldn't use books, but hands on experience, trial and error, scientific inquiry and experimentation and zero assumptions. School would be optional, but everyone would want to go because of how awesome it was. Kids would walk themselves to school in excitement, not in fear.

Kids are smarter than people give them credit for, in their hearts they KNOW school is corrupt/evil, they just aren't able to articulate why their instincts tells them its wrong. Because the material is wrong even deliberately. They know homework is wrong but parents force them to do it.
People question how such a grandiose deception could take place but they overlook the 18 years of FORCED SCHOOLING. A student who gets straight "A" on all his tests, gets perfect grades in college, goes to Harvard is the perfect victim of deception. Because this student didn't even bother to question the material, no they memorized it by heart.

The short answer is "propaganda" and "belief propagation". The greatest threat of all.

The key here is, technology at its core is always good. Even the dollar in theory is good. Its only when people charge interest on money (usury) and when propaganda is used when an idea or theory is corrupted. Fake science, fake tech, vaporware etc.

This is why DDE is so important. To give a way for us to change the paradigm, force honesty in a disingenous world. I'm not saying this will ever happen. In fact, from watching human behavior, I highly doubt it will ever get used.

But this won't stop me from using my own technology in my personal life. It exists, it can be used despite the opinions of wether or not a pair of shoes should be worth 10,000 BAY or .017 BAY. And anyone here who ever wants to make a contract that is harder to break, they have the tool! In BitBay, BlackHalo and BitHalo.

Consider this a rant, from a Don Quixote of sorts which may be referenced somewhere when the smoke clears.

And who knows, perhaps people will get tired of being lied to and finally use the tech. A man can dream.

Now get back to work Zimbeck!! This thing won't code itself.