Quote from: iamnotback on June 27, 2016, 12:49:25 PM

The other problem facing Monero is that their awesome RingCT upgrade just might not be actually desirable:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1516067.msg15381217#msg15381217

I say that with a heavy heart, because I invented essentially the same technology as RingCT, named Zero Knowledge Transactions. But I abandoned ZKT because I didn't see the great marketing win. I tried to find some coin to take my technology and no one was interested. Just goes to show there isn't much demand for it.

Monero's problem from the start was that DASH beat them to the first mover advantage of the hype around anonymity. AnonyMint and Gmaxwell had basically ignited that hype demand for anonymity back in 2013. Gmaxwell wrote about CoinJoin and AnonyMint was writing about how anonymity was necessary for fungibility and generally pointing out the coming battle against centralization of mining and potentially blacklisting. Then Mike Hearn proposed that redlisting, blacklisting, whitelisting crap, and the interest in anonymity exploded.

I'm glad you used that qualifier (bolded). You talk about marketing differences but XMR does not have any marketing and AFAIK it has been the consensus that there will not be any until it is out of beta and it is usable by the world as a whole (IOW a official GUI release). Do not mix up BTC chatter as marketing, the only ones that market here are scammers and they market themselves to investors. Monero will be creating an eco system when the marketing phase kicks in not trying to get a bunch of speculators to jump on board, that would actually hurt the coin at this point. The project is moving forward without them just fine.

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So Monero was later than DASH on marketing, so they tried to compensate by emphasizing the fair mining launch and rpietila bought some and started telling preaching that it was the only altcoin he would buy after being a Bitcoin-only maximallist. AnonyMint got pissed off at rpietila (his former colleague in silver trading) for prematurely trying to kill experimentation in altcoins. AnonyMint become a thorn in Monero threads and they began to see him as someone they had to destroy reputationally wise.

No they pointed out the Massive distribution difference between the two.

1. Dash failed launch followed by second failed launch because they was no miner that was supposed to be supplied to a huge portion of the community and then Evan took a bribe the next day not to relaunch and screwed all the miners that didn't have a compilable miner or had just shut off their rigs on the news of a second relaunch and then the "Bug" that mined a massive percentage of coins during that time which was spun as a "Feature" and spoonfed to the little cult of kids that like the name Darkcoin. The market was pumped with the massive ninja mine and it was announced it would be adding an anonymity feature. Which has been proven to be unsafe over and over again, but who cares about the truth when your scamming right?

2.I have never seen XMR Devs say it was a completely fair launch just that the crippled miner coins had been dumped and redistributed. And the crippled miner had been inherited with the code so it certainly wasn't planned by the community takeover of the coin. There no premine or ninja mine and no pump AFAIK and the price has been finding it's market value since launch and is one of the MOST stable V/s USD of all the viable choices.

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The bottom line is that Monero needed a market, but the only one they found was the delusion of "we are holier than thou" communism. That is my rough sketch stereotype, but of course there are other nuanced ways to look at it.

I don't see the demand for their technology and I don't see the culture of their community succeeding.

Sorry. And good luck. I could be wrong.

I have no clue what you mean here, I think you are being myopic and only looking from the POV of investment/speculation of course the world needs a fungible currency! There is NO other viable coin that can fill that niche. You know all the arguments on both sides and you know this to be true.

That is not to say there will not be a better one in the future, but the future is not here right now and My money is on any future fungible coin that is a competitor will have all the same features as XMR and that is a very hard act to follow. XMR DEVS and Scientists are the best of the best IMO

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Edit: Monero could have done an ICO back in 2014 and pooled a lot of money to fund development. IMO, they blew their chance to be relevant. But let's see maybe they can shift their focus to corporations and compete with Zcash.

I don't see how, it was thought to be a completely fair launch. The crippled miner was not known at launch. If you have proof otherwise I would really like to know about it.

I respect your knowledge but you sometimes loose track of the woods for the trees. That is a coders dilemma, losing sight of the entire project while working on a minuet yet critical issue. Tongue

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Quote from: iamnotback on June 27, 2016, 04:11:00 PM

IMO, spoetnik was correct about at least one point, which is that Monero was like a controlled delusion. See my and his prior posts for details.

They cleverly captured the desire to invest altruistically but they turned that into a Jim Jones cyanide koolaid Hotel California, where you can check in but you can never check out, because they convince you that all the other experimentation is useless.

I am completely out of crypto ATM.

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Ethereum may or may not be a scam. Nevertheless I conceived of a decentralized DAO-like concept because of the failure of The DAO. That could end up being a very important concept, way more important than anonymity.

what is wrong with the 2 co-existing?

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So I think it is wrong to not invest in those things you think will rise in price.

The profit motive is fine as long as it isn't to the point of destruction. IOW lets take the example of the guy who buys the lifesaving drug company and then raises the price to the point where only a handful can afford it, Is this acceptable? That is pure capitalism.

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Nature is not a straight line. It is an imperfect zigzag annealing.

True. It is a tree, but if you zoom out enough it is linear.

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No amount of perfect computation can know the future a priori perfectly.

See this:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1342065.msg15383820#msg15383820

I'm not sure how this relates?