Quote from: r0ach on July 06, 2016, 07:41:28 AM

Quote from: iamnotback on July 06, 2016, 06:31:23 AM

Sorry that can't happen, because the physical commodity markets are too small and illiquid to hold the $trillions of liquid wealth locked up in bonds and stock markets.

That statement makes no sense!

The bond market is selling unservicable debt, aka bad IOUs, not "liquid wealth" as you put it. The people buying the IOUs will eventually get shafted and hold a bag of zero, and when they do, things like metals and Bitcoin skyrocket while the debt markets collapse (and take down their respective currency with it). It is not required to transfer the market cap from bonds to metals and Bitcoin in some type of orderly process on an exchange.

As a primitive example, let's say you only have two currencies on earth - the peso with 10% of market and the shekel with 90%. The value of all labor is represented by those two assets. If the shekel collapses, there's no such thing as "the peso is too illiquid to absorb the shekel market", it gets it by default - literally and figuratively.

If the govt buys their own debt, it's the same thing as printing paper and you're essentially transferring value to Bitcoin and metals in that manner anyway. If governments try to rig metals and Bitcoin downwards, all it does is create bigger gains for the smart money that buys it while it's repressed unless you actually believe you can continue the fraud to eternity (not possible).

Until bonds are unserviceable or the market believes they are, Bitcoin and gold mcaps are too illiquid to absorb the $trillions of inflow. Once that capital is trapped and expropriated, then it can't move into Bitcoin or gold. You lack logic skills r0ach. My statement was logically correct.

Also you are putting the cart before the horse, in that we haven't even YET seen the Europeans attempting to bail out of their F.U.B.A.R. economy into the USD, US Treasuries, and finally US stocks (but they will next year when the SHTF). So we have a long way go before the masses think the US bonds and stocks are unserviceable. And by definition, once there is a stampede of confidence, only a very small percent of the capital will escape into these alternative assets.

Quote from: r0ach on July 06, 2016, 07:41:28 AM

Quote from: iamnotback on July 06, 2016, 06:31:23 AM

This is why assets are likely to flow in US stock markets (via the US dollar) as the sovereign bonds start to fail in Europe.

Again, this doesn't make any sense either. For the stock prices to go up, those companies actually have to be moving product off the shelves, and the economic outlook of every country is generally bad.

Nope. You don't seem to understand anything about markets. Do altcoins actually have to offer any thing real in order to go up in price! Of course not!

All that is required is that the world sees the USA as somewhat more stable or safe, that can ignite an influx and then capital follows capital, because everyone wants to get some of those gains in valuations, i.e. the wealth effect.

You don't seem to understand that in the brave new world of collapsing velocity of money, collapsing marginal-utility-of-debt, ZIRP, etc., that investing is forced off of any fundamentals and just blowing bubbles seeking yield, liquidity (follow the herd), and valuation appreciation.

(Besides the US Treasury debt is no where near being unserviceable. Rather it is only the unfunded future liabilities that will be defaulted on, e.g. Social Security. Come on man, at least get a clue)

It is such a pita and waste of my time to read your weak ass attempts to slander and smear Armtrong, when you seem to not even understand basic issues about investing in times like this.

Quote from: r0ach on July 06, 2016, 07:41:28 AM

Quote from: iamnotback on July 06, 2016, 06:31:23 AM

If there is a truly decentralized crypto-currency available when the US stock market begins to overheat at nosebleed levels, and if it has gained sufficiently liquidity, then it could see a tremendous influx of capital. Unfortunately, Bitcoin nor the altcoins have solved the scaling and decentralization issues.

From my estimates, all Bitcoin would need to do is scale to 8MB to allow market penetration as a checkbook type device for large value transactions in the middle/upper middle class of around $5,000 - $10,000. At around 1-2 MB, Bitcoin would be more of a tool for the top 2-10% of wealth assuming we rely on on-chain transactions to prevent fractional reserve. It's unknown just what percent of the transaction volume is required to be on-chain to prevent fractional reserve. If you think the answer is 100%, then obviously only something like LN would work. I don't care if you think it's "flawed" or whatever, that would be the only type of solution if you require all transactions on-chain.

Bitcoin is already ChinaCoin. It is not decentralized even at 1MB blocks.

Besides money that you can only spend by converting it to fiat, isn't really an alternative asset. The appeal of gold was you could hope on a plane with it, and someone could convert it in the blackmarket and spend it for real goods. But this isn't going to be possible any more. And ditto Bitcoin, as the capital controls come down the pike, you won't be able to spend it on stuff with only 8MB blocks. You need actually scaling if you want it become a currency. And you decentralization if you want to it be resistant to control by any one nation or power (e.g. China).

I am just going to need to get my coding ass in gear and fix this shit.

Quote from: r0ach on July 06, 2016, 07:41:28 AM

The only other alternative would be to use a technically federated chain where verification is centralized amongst one node or a few federated nodes, but the centralized orderer/verifier can't actually double spend or anything like that. All they can do is take the thing offline and then you're forced to manually replace them somehow. Realsolid actually already coded this system out, but it's a pretty hard sell being technically a federated chain because it has no way to replace the verifiers should they spontaneously die.

That is not the only other alternative design for a scalable, decentralized block chain.

Quote from: r0ach on July 06, 2016, 07:41:28 AM

Quote from: iamnotback on July 06, 2016, 06:31:23 AM

Governments already have a helicopter money system, it is called "food stamps" and "unemployment insurance". The plan of the TPTB is to turn more than 50% of the people into social welfare parasites, so they will always vote to continue the totalitarianism.

There will be no dropping money from helicopters. Just more and more debt piled onto to people who have to beg for more totalitarianism so they can get some government handouts for their basic necessities of life.

And you think creating a dystopian civilization run by a single room full of jews to control a population of 6 billion will actually work? No, it will not work. The end result of such attempts is always being beheaded by guillotines.

Define "work". The masses will seek their own destruction as they always do, by clinging to collectivism. That is nature's culling mechanism at-work. So it is "working".

Quote from: iamnotback on July 07, 2016, 01:03:24 PM

Quote from: wiked1 on July 06, 2016, 08:58:03 AM

Tyranny will come in the guise of safety and security and of course the envoirnment and health and safety are included because it is always best to hide the lie in the truth. Selective truth and doublespeak create the narrative as the tyranny rolls out and the sheeple have been slowly boiled like a frog.

Tinfoil hat investors don't seem to understand that the masses are still a long way from viewing all of the current financial system as F.U.B.A.R.. They are just at the point of trying to vote to kick out incumbents. They are no where near yet bailing out with a parachute.

We have a long ways to go and this will culling of the herd will get very ugly as it always does throughout repeating bouts in man's history.