Quote from: Admiral_Bit on July 12, 2016, 07:24:01 PM

Ok, this just came in from a legal advisor. looking really bad for IOTA:

Its not from me:

Quote

Hello there,

ok, let´s do this my way...

i strongly oppose your statement in terms of "IOTA" not beeing a financial provider. You implemented a platform to invest a certain amount of crypto coins in exchange for a certain amount of crypto coins of a different kind.

This kind of transactional structure automatically implies a financial enterprise, either in a commercial or regulative understanding. All commercial applications or services which are provided from the U.S territory fall under the regulation of the FDIC.

Again id like to point out, that nowhere on the application account form it states that your investment is actually a donation. I think my point becomes more valid if i give you a few examples:

- The "Get started" button on the mainpage directly leads you to the IOTA application form
- After filling out all mandatory fields you can directly login into your account. There is not even an email verification implemented
- On the profiles you will find a button with the label "Invest". The click on the button will return a "BTC investment Address"
- The form part "Your Investement" shows you the label "Invested BTC"
- On the lower part of the page you will find a transaction overview which first column is named "Investor"

Nowhere during the application process i was asked to confirm any terms of use. Nowhere during the application process i was informed that my "Investment" is not refundable. I did not recieve a confirmation mail with the details of my profile setup. At no time during the application process i was forwarded to an information which could have lead me to the conclusion that my investment is actually a donation.

The IOTA investment process clearly lacks the verification and transparency stipulated by your financial regulators (especially if it is supposed to be regarded as a donation process).

With regard to the points stated above i will pursuit the following actions:

1. I will perform a screencap incl. timestamp of the IOTA application procedure for further evidence - Done
2. I will file a formal FDIC complaint with the motion to investigate the extend of IOTA´s financial and legal obligations
3. I will file an action for a declaratory judgment with the motion to refund all my investments during the IOTA ICO period

The last point will lead to a cost note from my lawyer which includes: 1. Filing the motion, 2. Translating the notion 3. Forward the notion to the U.S jurisdiction. The estimated fees lie around 2000 and will forwarded to the IOTA team after it has been covered by my insurance company.

Please make no mistake; i have the money, the time and the intention to pull this through. If you are willing to resolve this without further legal implications, you know how to contact me. After proper account verification i will provide you with my BTC refund address. For your further reconsideration, no action will be filed until Monday, July the 18th end of business

Kind regards

And now compare to this:

Quote from: Admiral_Bit on June 16, 2016, 05:46:17 PM

Quote from: RiseVision on June 16, 2016, 04:00:21 PM

Quote from: Admiral_Bit on June 16, 2016, 03:30:56 PM

Quote from: RiseVision on June 16, 2016, 02:15:02 PM

Quote from: Admiral_Bit on June 16, 2016, 01:45:39 PM

I have reconsidered and would like to reclaim my invested bitcoins. What is the process here? Can a rise admin please advise...

Legal reminder
I am acting in accordance with my local distance selling act. If my invested btc amount is not returned by june 17th EOB matters will be enforced by my legal costs insurance...

BTW: this is not a joke. Since the rise Vision page misses a transparent legal disclaimer regarding potential refunds (i never confirmed any business terms...) i hereby demand my Investment to be returned...

In accordance with our terms stated clearly on the ICO page and the fact that all funds are locked in escrow, we are not in a position to provide refunds.

Hello there,

from a legal Point of view, this Information does not unbind you from the implementation of proper business terms. There is no confirmation what so ever (i.e. I hereby understand, that all investements are non-refundable) when creating a rise Profile.

Actually the rise Profile page does not give any Information regarding the Investment procedure. When it comes to financial transactions you are obligated to implement proper Business Terms. And moreover, you are required to have them confirmed by the user before you process any transactions.

The RISE ICO violates FDIC regulation Act 6500 which clearly states:

"§ 1005.4 General disclosure requirements; jointly offered services.

(a)(1) Form of disclosures. Disclosures required under this part shall be clear and readily understandable, in writing, and in a form the consumer may keep, except as otherwise provided in this part. The disclosures required by this part may be provided to the consumer in electronic form, subject to compliance with the consumer-consent and other applicable provisions of the Electronic Signatures in Global and National Commerce Act (E-Sign Act) (15 U.S.C. 7001 et seq.). A financial institution may use commonly accepted or readily understandable abbreviations in complying with the disclosure requirements of this part.

My lawyer (who i dont even have to pay since i have proper insurance) will have a legal complaint ready by next week. Please consider the financial and reputational impact to your Enterprise which comes along with an international lawsuit.

I´d really like to resolve my refund request without legal implications. Please reconsider...

Hi Admiral_Bit,

With all due respect we are not a financial institution or an enterprise.

Rise is not providing any direct services. We are working on open source code that anyone can run and use at will. We provide no centralized banking or financial services.

Bitcoin "Investments" are donations to keep us able to work on the project.

Those donations will give us the ability to develop features that provide nodes new benefits if they upgrade.

For those reasons we don't come under FDIC regulations.

Rise will launch in just over seven days, at which point you can recover your investment depending on the performance on the exchanges.

Hello there,

ok, let´s do this my way...

i strongly oppose your statement in terms of "Rise" not beeing a financial provider. You implemented a platform to invest a certain amount of crypto coins in exchange for a certain amount of crypo coins of a different kind.

This kind of transactional structure automatically implies a financial enterprise, either in a commercial or regulative understanding. All commercial applications or services which are provided from the U.S territory fall under the regulation of the FDIC.

Again id like to point out, that nowhere on the application account form it states that your investment is actually a donation. I think my point becomes more valid if i give you a few examples:

- The "Get started" button on the mainpage directly leads you to the rise application form
- After filling out all mandatory fields you can directly login into your account. There is not even an email verification implemented
- On the profiles you will find a button with the label "Invest". The click on the button will return a "BTC investment Address"
- The form part "Your Investement" shows you the label "Invested BTC"
- On the lower part of the page you will find a transaction overview which first column is named "Investor"

Nowhere during the application process i was asked to confirm any terms of use. Nowhere during the application process i was informed that my "Investment" is not refundable. I did not recieve a confirmation mail with the details of my profile setup. At no time during the application process i was forwarded to an information which could have lead me to the conclusion that my investment is actually a donation.

The RISE investment process clearly lacks the verification and transparency stipulated by your financial regulators (especially if it is supposed to be regarded as a donation process).

With regard to the points stated above i will pursuit the following actions:

1. I will perform a screencap incl. timestamp of the Rise application procedure for further evidence - Done
2. I will file a formal FDIC complaint with the motion to investigate the extend of rise´s financial and legal obligations
3. I will file an action for a declaratory judgment with the motion to refund all my investments during the Rise ICO period

The last point will lead to a cost note from my lawyer which includes: 1. Filing the motion, 2. Translating the notion 3. Forward the notion to the U.S jurisdiction. The estimated fees lie around 2000 and will forwarded to the Rise team after it has been covered by my insurance company.

Please make no mistake; i have the money, the time and the intention to pull this through. If you are willing to resolve this without further legal implications, you know how to contact me. After proper account verification i will provide you with my BTC refund address. For your further reconsideration, no action will be filed until Monday, June the 20th end of business

Kind regards