Quote from: CL-Ed on August 09, 2016, 08:02:35 AM

Quote from: Trayber on August 09, 2016, 04:43:17 AM

Why are you still willing to take affiliate money from many of the casinos you promote that primarily offer Betsoft games when in fact you know the evidence is to damning with the Bovada situation that they rig the progressive games.

BTW, I'm thankful for all the work you put in with your investigations but its hypocritical to continue to promote the Betsoft crooks on your site with casinos still operating their shady software.

Firstly Trayber thank you for your appreciation of the ongoing time and effort that we put into this. I know that you guys think that we're making loads of money from casinos that "primarily offer Betsoft games" and therefore don't want to do anything about it. That is not the case at all. Did you not notice that we were the ones who tracked their jackpots, we were the ones who publicised the issues, we were the ones that publicly posted articles urging people to avoid their games, and now only a small number of other affiliates sites and casinos have taken note? If it were the case wouldn't it have been better for us to not do the study, not publicise the results, and not call Betsoft and Betcoin out on it? According to your logic, wouldn't we make more money by ignoring this whole thing? The proof is in the pudding and that weak argument does not stack up at all.

In fact, here's an exercise for you. Find me a casino that "primarily offers Betsoft games" that we have rated 4 stars or higher on our site (these are the ones that people mainly go to). Can we agree that "primarily" means at least 50% of the games in their casino? I would be surprised if you can find one. You can start here on our page that lists Betsoft casinos. Most of the highly rated ones on that list are multi-provider casinos which use a third party aggregator platform for their games (eg EveryMatrix), of which Betsoft would make up less than 5 or 10% of the games at a guess. The fact is that there are very few Betsoft-only casinos, and those that do exist are poor. Don't swallow Betsoft's marketing lies and be mislead by perhaps your own experience of crypto-only casinos, they are not the major player that they claim to be.

Now are there casinos reviewed on our site that have Betsoft games that we have not blacklisted? Yes there are, as you can see on that page. Have any of those been complicit in the ripping off a jackpot winner, have any been caught running fake or pirated games, have any been shown to be not paying winners? Not to our knowledge. For example, do I think Guts Casino is a rogue? No of course not, they have one of the best reputations in the industry, but I noted today while writing this that they are running Betsoft games. That both concerns and surprises me.

We have been speaking to people at various casinos about this and it is an ongoing issue but at the end of the day, we are a small group of people who neither have the time nor resources to chase up every casino and alert them to this issue and encourage them to remove the games. We release our information publicly and do what we can. We have informed the Curacao licensing authorities. I'm sure you can guess what their response was. We can only guess too, because we never got one. It would be great if people who are customers (or concerned members of the community like yourself Trayber) of casinos that still run their games stopped playing there and contacted them and told them why. That would be a lot more productive that coming here and bitching and moaning at one of the few people to have actually done anything about this situation. If it wasn't for us you would be blissful in your ignorance of the charade being perpetrated by Betsoft and Betcoin, and 99% of other industry sites have said and done nothing about this at all.

We have Pragmatic Play (a.k.a. TopGame) on our blacklist too, but in recent times some well-run multi-platform casinos have added their games to their selection and we have not blacklisted them either. Its not a simple situation and I honestly do not know the right answer. In the absence of a better solution we continue to warn people not to play games belonging to a rogue software provider, and we will gladly inform people of any casino that decides to remove their games like Bovada, Slots.lv, and SlotsMillion did. We are not unfairly "biased" against Betsoft as they have been treated the same as TopGame / PP. Take note of that Betsoft and Betcoin shills.

I do agree that we need to find a better way to deal with otherwise good casinos with a history of fair operation (like Guts for example) that start offering games from software providers like Betsoft and Pragmatic Play that we consider to be rogue. I have a few ideas and I am open to suggestions, of which obviously the first is to blacklist them all as you suggest. I had hoped that publicly shaming these companies would achieve more than it has and make that step unnecessary, but there you have it, we are where we are which is sadly a reflection of the priorities of most people in this industry.

It took all them words to answer that one question? Let me write the response to the question you just wrote with fewer words:

Casinolistings makes money by driving traffic to their affiliates; many of their affiliates use Betsoft software, but it's too complicated for casinolistings to blacklist those sites because the evidence is inconclusive. So, they start a campaign and blacklist the competition that uses Betsoft software instead because it helps drive traffic to their affiliated sites where the players they refer are safer?

Here's a question: If you think that you have conclusive evidence that Betsoft has cheated and you're still getting paid to refer players to those sites that use the software, then why aren't you blacklisting yourself?

Admit it....your statistical analysis was limited in scope and there are many ways the data could be interpreted, so you are not prepared to make a conclusive stand on your interpretation because it could cost you if you are wrong. So, instead, you attack the competition because it's more rewarding and potentially less costly. Right?

You, my friend, are wearing the hat of a shill....not me. I trust the site where I play; you, on the other hand, make money off of poaching customers from the competition with your claims, then refer those customers to sites that use the same software you claim is cheating....what's wrong with that picture?