Quote from: luigi1111 on August 24, 2016, 10:04:35 PM

Quote from: elrippo on August 24, 2016, 08:26:49 PM

Well, when people say MOON, Rocket starting, the Darknet buys Monero now and so on, that's all a very optimistic sight of what is actually happening. Like mentioned a few posts earlier to this, insider information, large bags of BTC to play with, manipulating some markets --> plural (did you watch the other noname coins yesterday), is obvious.

Of course i also would like to see XMR beeing the #1 cyrpto in the world used by everybody to do what everybody likes, but that is not the case, yet.
This IS manipulation, maybe the cashout of the bitfinex hack, and that is obvious. If you tell me this is "natural" growth of XMR, i would like to discus your arguments guys Shocked

What is "manipulation", really? What is "natural"?

Of course a component of the rally is speculation due to the news on DNMs. I would even bet it is the largest component. These last few days are completely unprecedented in Monero-land; the correlation with the news is extremely strong. Is this speculation "manipulation"? There are of course other components as well. You seem to be assigning a high (nay, overwhelming) % to some other "manipulation" by those with "large bags of BTC to play with".

The XMR market represents the current consensus on the price of XMR. Part of that consensus is "manipulation"; part is "natural"; part might be "other". No market participant is exactly like another. You do not and cannot *know* the intent of the market participants except yourself. You can thus only guess at what you think is going on. When you say in the affirmative "This IS manipulation", you declare that which you do not know.

You request "our" arguments for "natural" growth, but provide none for "manipulation" beyond that it "is obvious".

Like i stated earlier, to see 1000BTC chipping in for buying, some buywalls ranging from 100BTC to 500BTC on polo at 0,008 and then suddenly drop...
Well, in my opinion, that is not natural growth, this smells and tastes like manipulation from a single entity.
If the DNM adopt XMR, which they already do, i suppose there would not be this behaviour in buying XMR.
Besides, until we have no market for turning XMR in $ or , the cashout probably will still be in BTC, which does not lift the price of XMR a little bit.

We will see in December which range we are dealing with Grin