Quote from: alanshore on September 05, 2016, 12:43:28 AM

Quote from: arielbit on September 05, 2016, 12:04:54 AM

Quote from: alanshore on September 04, 2016, 11:00:59 PM

Quote from: smoothie on September 04, 2016, 11:29:16 AM

Quote from: alanshore on September 03, 2016, 09:27:01 PM

Not to beat a dead horse but this again why it is more important than ever for privacy centric cryptos to work together rather than bashing each other.

Here is the direct link to EFF article that was quoted:
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2016/04/rule-41-little-known-committee-proposes-grant-new-hacking-powers-government

Again, the equation is pretty simple. We squabble, the world becomes like 1984. We unite, we at least have a chance of forcing their hand.

The majority of discussion has been using facts to base claims about Dash and Monero.

"Bashing" is the term used when the opposing side of the discussion does not like how the discussion is going so they play the victim card.

A lot of people appear to have missed the point in my original post asking both communities to be more cooperative. They can still compete and use that competition to innovate and they can still critique the other technology. What I believe needs to happen though for cryptos in general to succeed is to do this in a more professional and jovial manner.

You are correct that some of the discussions have used facts and have been productive but a lot of the conversations have also been without facts and very childish.

Here is just one of many examples that I do believe is "bashing" as it does not reference facts, evidence or data of any kind and instead uses verbiage like "scam" and "snakeoil".

Here is another example where "DashHole" is used.

It is a known problem that members of the Monero community actively make aggressive claims about other technology without providing evidence to back these claims up. In the last example, one of the Monero team is quoted in stating they cannot control members of their community. That is true and I believe stifling free speech always leads to bad outcomes so that is not something I am advocating for in anyway.

The one thing that can be done is for someone from the Monero team to make a statement that they do not support members of their community making claims without providing evidence. They could make that post in this thread and it won't have to be mentioned again. That way at least myself and others in the Monero community, including the aggressors, will know that the Monero team does not support this behavior and then hopefully we can move forward together in advocating for the adoption of cryptos.

By remaining silent, they are endorsing this behavior and it is off putting and unprofessional.

I have been investing and watching both Monero and Dash for over two years and am continuously embarrassed to be part of a community that acts so childish when so much is at stake. I have been vocal as of late as I am becoming increasingly worried at the direction our society is moving and believe that cooperation is more necessary now than it ever has been.

Speaking of stifling free speech, I was extremely disappointed that my plea to the Monero and Dash communities was censored on the Monero subreddit: http://imgur.com/a/Cqnz1

My plea is still on the bitcointalk Monero thread which is great but I'm not sure I understand why it was removed on the Monero subreddit.

It is a little hypocritical that the Monero team believes it cannot control certain members of its community but then actively censors other members of that same community that are only trying to bring a stop to the unproductive hostility.

I believe both communities should let the past be the past and open a new door towards cooperation but we cannot do that without the leaders setting an example for others to follow.

Quote from: alanshore on September 04, 2016, 01:34:11 AM

As the topic of why masternode owners are likely long term investors was brought up, I'm happy to chime in.

During the day I'm a derivatives trader. I really don't trust our markets so I never hold futures contracts for very long and whenever I do invest in something for the long term, I am always looking for the most yield with the least amount of risk.

Currently, I could park my money in treasuries, bonds, dividend paying stocks or even write my own options. What becomes fairly apparent when looking into all of these though is that the yield on both the safer and riskier investments is so low right now that at this point in time, they don't make a lot of sense unless those are your only options.

While Dash is not the only crypto I hold, it is currently the only one that does offer an inviting yield on your investment. On my masternodes I currently make 10% annual ROI. About 1.75% of that does get taken away whenever I convert masternode payments back to fiat due to various exchange fees but the remaining 8.25% is still a fantastic return.

While I know this is anecdotal evidence, I do think its safe to assume that a good portion of other masternode owners have performed a similar assessment of what will offer the greatest "guaranteed" ROI and chose to invest in Dash and its masternodes because of this. All investments have risks and your initial investment could go down in value. Dash is no exception but considering that I actually have voting power as to the direction of my investment, I feel comfortable holding Dash for the long term over lets say Intel or Apple stock where I could be earning a much smaller dividend with lower risk but would not have the same voting power.

Without incentivized nodes, I am beginning to doubt the long term viability of other currencies as I think they will eventually face the same problems that bitcoin is now. I really hope more currencies begin to incorporate incentivized nodes and I know there are several that are.

i know you have investments in dash masternodes..and threats to dash is also a threat to your investment...i understand that.

BUT..you cannot strip humans of their emotions.. i recommend putting on your "dash t-shirt" and drink your coffee from "dash mug" and let's have some fun Wink

I have made it clear from the beginning that most of my cash worth is spread between Monero and Dash. More recently, I've been making a whole lot more money in Monero than I have Dash but making money has never been the point. The ROI that Dash masternodes offer is just a bonus, as is the money I have been making in Monero, both of which I still plan to hold long term. I do not want a "dash t-shirt" or a "dash mug". I just want everyone to expand their scope of thinking and see everyone in the crypto space as being part of the same group and begin to treat each other with respect. While it is impossible to strip humans of their emotions and would be counter-productive to do so, I think we can hold everyone to a higher standard.

I believe in both currencies and the point that everyone continues to miss, including you, is that this is much larger than "my" investments.

This is about changing the way our species makes transactions and about giving everyone freedom which I really do not think we have been able to experience in our entire history. Decentralization was not technically feasible until just recently and now we have a chance to change the underlying systems of our civilization. But in order to do this, we have to overcome a lot of barriers and will have to engage with a lot of organizations that have billions of dollars at stake if the status quo was to change. They are not going to give up easily and quite frankly have not even started to fight us. The combined marketcap of the top 100 cryptos is only 12 billion. Do you know what that is to Goldman Sachs? 3 months worth of earnings. Do you know what that is to Apple? 1 / 50th of their market cap. They have not started to fight us because we are barely a threat.

We will be though and that is when the real battle will begin and I believe that is right around the corner. We need to get our ducks in a row and stop our in fighting so we can get organized for what lies ahead. Constructive criticism is great. Name calling, unsubstantiated claims and posts without links to evidence or that are phrased in an aggressive or childish way only serve to widen our divisions when we need to be doing the exact opposite.

Would any of this behavior be tolerated in the business world? Would any of this be tolerated at any reputable firm? The answer is clearly no and these are the very entrenched systems that we are up against. They will walk all over us as we try to push adoption if we do not change the way we present ourselves.

There is nothing "fun" about the direction our world is heading nor is there anything "fun" about the way that millions of people suffer under the existing monopolies of banks and remittance companies. I believe that each persons life is inherently meaningless and that it is up to the individual to give meaning to their own life through their actions. We, as supporters of cryptos have an opportunity to make a real change and I urge everyone to think of the big picture and act accordingly.

i have a different vision, i prefer fighting/competition..it makes each other stronger and innovative..

i even like attacks, i wanted monero attacked, DASH attacked, Bitcoin attacked... attack everywhere.. we don't want to release a crypto currency to the whole world that will fail and bring billions of $ down with it..

think of crypto like a bitcoin dojo with satoshi nakamoto as sensei

monero and dash are sparring partners, include zcash too..after they toughen up they will leave the bitcoin dojo and find their path in the world.

regarding shills, they are my favorites..i neutralize their lies and deception...i also have fun along the way Grin

regarding speculators, they are part of the ecosystem...people gamble, trade, invest, make a few bucks etc.. that's life.