Quote from: actmyname on September 29, 2016, 01:40:04 AM

Quote from: vigory on September 29, 2016, 01:22:57 AM

they are not thieves until they have stolen from someone .... I play these games because I profit from them as I'm one of the first in. There is nothing wrong with that, that is how it works. If you look at any HYIP, or the HYIP industry that has been running for 20+ years you will see some people make huge profit and others make huge losses. that is how the game goes. if this forum can not accept that is how HYIP works then do not allow it here altogether.

Right, so when the ponzi collapses or the owner runs away, they aren't thieves. When you're paid with other people's funds, that's not theft! That's just how the game works! "I play these games because I profit from them as I'm one of the first in." - thus, you realize that the last people in are losers, and their money is thieved, right? After all, the owners can't pay you without using other people's funds.

About your last point, it's also moot since we are talking about cryptodevil's trust - the forum is not cryptodevil. Also to add, the default trust system is just that - no one really NEEDS to keep it static, and thus you may change it to whatever you wish.

Quote from: vigory on September 29, 2016, 01:37:54 AM

yes, i do know they work, anyone who googles the definition should know the word.
this is a simple solution, change the board to this description:
"This board consists of Investor-Based Games (HYIPs, Ponzis etc) that are in most cases financial pyramids (fraud). Play or "invest" at your own risk"

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Games where the main factor is whether or not new "investors" join the game.

That's the forum description. It used to have some description similar to that, but did not anymore. Okay, so you know how ponzis work. So why are you supporting them? Why are you supporting the people who steal money? You're indirectly abetting them.

Quote from: vigory on September 29, 2016, 01:37:54 AM

This section could actually take off with LEGIT ponzis (ones that state they are real ponzi games and are transparent) if this censoring came to an end.

Doesn't work. Someone always gets screwed, and if it's one of those where another person needs to deposit within the timeframe, nobody is (usually) willing to go after the first depositor. The only reason ponzis survive now is because dumb people invest in them because of the high ROI (when they say they cloud mine/trade, etc. with that bs) and promotions.

Quote from: vigory on September 29, 2016, 01:37:54 AM

why can't we either ban HYIP altogether OR leave the section alone and let it evolve and eventually it will establish its own rules and regulations like every other section has?

Let it evolve into what? A cesspool for lazy scammers and idiot "investors"? It's pretty much already got it's own rules and regulations: you promote a scam, you get red-marked.

addendum: Warning: You are in the Gambling section. You are likely to eventually lose any money that you gamble/"invest". Additionally, moderators do not remove likely scams. You must use your own brain: caveat emptor. Do not gamble more than you can afford to lose.

That's at the top. Do you really want to support a thread within the likely scam category?

You are completely missing the point. I know how ponzi's work, you know how ponzi's work...I choose to play them because I can profit from them but at the same time I can lose, just like gambling. It is exactly the same.
If you look at the terms of service of almost ANY SITE you will see that they say there is risk. Almost any site says this. Any real game anyway, not some HTML scam built by a 12 year old kid saying "send me your btc and i'll double it"

It will evolve in regard to real games that last a long time will come on and off, some may even last years, many people will profit and less people will lose at the end. Right now this is what is happening:
- New site is posted
- Ignorant members who don't listen to any of cryptodevils garbage join in
- There is no support for these programs so they scam very quickly
- All members lose, no one wins.

how it can evolve into:
- New site is posted
- Members choose whether to support it or not
- Site evolves and lasts many cycles, many people get paid and make money
- Last people lose, but much less than all the people who gained

so you tell me, do you want ignorant people to keep on losing money from smart trickery of these scams or do you want less people to lose out and more people to gain?

no matter how much cryptodevil posts, these games are going to keep on coming. it is up to us whether we play them like the russians over in mmgp.ru who have built a whole economy around these games, or we are going to sit here like idiots and let the newbies lose their money and us experienced players not able to teach anyone how to play these games to prevent their losses.

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Doesn't work. Someone always gets screwed, and if it's one of those where another person needs to deposit within the timeframe, nobody is (usually) willing to go after the first depositor..

Does everyone who plays dice or any other gambling game win? That is the point, there is never 100% winners, that is how gambling works and that is how this section should work. But all program lives are being cut short meaning more losers than winners, and that is the fault of not letting people speak their opinion about sites. We, the gamblers, in this section should have control on if a site is successful or not based on our own personal preference....not one person on default trust.

do I support the owners of these scams? no I don't. But do you prefer more people losing than people winning, or more people winning than losing? that is what I am trying to convey here.