Quote from: Xiaoxiao on November 13, 2016, 11:40:00 PM

Quote from: Wh0CaR3s on November 13, 2016, 08:49:25 AM

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1616139.msg16861031#msg16861031

You probably make money out of these BOT accounts but I hope you are aware that this is bad for everyone (players, site, affiliates) that they can run wild on a site and that, in the long term, it surely means the end of online poker.

So I do hope youre gonna push very hard the Betcoin Management so that they finally take actions against the BOT accounts that are cheating the players since months on Betcoin.

I copy/paste here what I said on the Betcoin BTC thread in case my post is being nuked there.

Quote from: Wh0CaR3s on November 13, 2016, 08:45:22 AM

I am going to try to raise awareness about the current integrity of the cash games on Betcoin during the past few months since just talking about it on the tables seems insufficient considering the cheaters still get action.

Cliff: There is none.

It has been 6 months since I try to get Betcoin management to take measures against BOTS playing on the site, to no end.
The accounts in question are: Durrr / Duremar22 (Durrr is not playing anymore, it has been replaced by the Duremar22 account) and 8microman.
Durrr/Duremar22 playing 200NL and 100NL tables in the morning CET
8microman being in charge of playing 100NL and 50NL in the afternoon CET.

All those accounts are using the same based BOT (each operator can certainly tweak it but at its core the way it acts remains the same)
The accusation of them being BOTS is not a wild speculation, it is relaying on:
/.Stats on key points
/.Sizings
/.Timing tells
/.Antics at the tables.

Each alone not being enough (tho, the stats converging on a lot of key points over a large sample size is enough but you need to have a big DB), altogether them using the same based BOT is an evidence.

I would not go into specifics as I did with Betcoin management because I certainly do not want to help the BOT maker to tweak it and render it harder to spot.

The reaction of Betcoin management has simply been to do nothing.
When after a couple of months the only answer I can get is that they are on it and they are still compiling data it sadly became obvious that they didnt intend to do anything.

We are not talking about a site with hundreds of players on average in cash games. Betcoin, according to Pokerscout, has an average of 20 cash game players.
20 players on average and they cannot spot / ban BOTS with such a low player pool.

It can only be either sheer incompetence or malicious intent.
Giving the track record of Betcoin, I would go for the former but that still not make it ok as players on Betcoin are getting cheated everyday by those BOTS.

Hello Who0CaR3s,

First of all, I appreciate your involvement and proactiveness in policing the poker room. It is people like you and live support that make Betcoin poker one of the better and promising poker environments today. I must note there is a decent amount of players that have NOT taken advantage of this rakeback program. The players you bring into question are not on this rakeback program, so I am certainly not profiting off their play.

The problem is that there are way too many careless 'bot' accusations being flung around, and most of which after close examination are not bots at all, and some of these accusations even turn out to be players having a vendetta and/or fit of rage against another player that has won against them.

I'm certainly not saying that is what you're doing as you seem to have much more care in your examination/accusation. However, I can say that the evidence you've brought up isn't even CLOSE to being conclusive. You would have to have a LARGE sample of hands which I doubt you have, on the player(s) in question PLUS every other telltale sign of botting has to be positive, for it to be conclusive that one is botting, and it seems like you are not at that point in your investigation.

In the past, Full Tilt poker had done a great job of eliminating bots, and they were only able to do so after having sample sizes of over 30,000 hands. The worst thing that can happen is for an innocent player and all his/her hardwork and grind to be destroyed due to accusations. My advice is to stay vigilant and wise at the same time, making sure the poker environment is safe as well as not making careless accusations, both of which you're quite good at, but most players are not like that; hence they throw out careless accusations and some out of malice.

Finally I think an even scarier problem in online poker in general, far scarier than bots, is the problem of collusion. This problem is pretty much nonexistent at Betcoin Poker's cash games, due to the vigilance of people like you and live support, but it is something I hope everyone can/will focus on more, because bots certainly do not have the unfair advantage that collusion brings. In fact, most bots avoid playing good players. Why are there never any potential bots willing to sit with some of the high rollers at say $5/10 NL and higher? It's because world class players, thankfully, are still greater than bots and much less exploitable than bots at this point in NL/PL. At any rate, I've said a lot and I will certainly bring up anything that I see questionable to support. So we are certainly on the same page in terms of wanting a clean and healthy poker environment.

Whocares is probably right about them being bots, and Xiao is right about Whocares providing proof. But only because he didn't really give any proof at all.

Depending on the bots tendencies, you could have enough evidence from a single session, or you might need 100k+ hands.

Betcoin used to run bots 24/7 and they were gold mines for players. The bots disappeared the same day they launched the table starter promo. Here's a list of most of them http://pastebin.com/Gzzc6P6k

You can go play for playmoney on betbetr.com and see the same software (upgraded version actually) with all bots.

Stupid bots are great for the game. Smart bots are bad for the game. A site that tries to cover issues up and then lies about it is very bad for the game. That's what Betcoin is doing. Xiao, you should try to get them to stop doing that instead of pretending like there's no issue.

Quote from: Xiaoxiao on November 13, 2016, 11:46:38 PM

Quote from: TwitchySeal on November 13, 2016, 12:20:26 PM

Xiao doesn't give a fuck and Betcoin deleted your post already...

Twitchy, don't put words in my mouth. You're more of an annoyance than asset to the poker community.

Betcoin is a cancer to the poker and bitcoin communities.

Stop promoting them and I'll stop annoying you.