Quote from: snowflake43 on November 25, 2016, 02:06:06 AM

Ans also because some people fail to see the bigger picture, they think every transactions in the world should be stored in the blockchain. How silly? You must seriously lack some vision to think something that stupid.

or your missing the even bigger picture, the one outside of the box.

dual-signed permission payments that are not same day(usually 10min-hour) immutable transactions as bitcoin.
also requiring prepaid fee's just to use LN and penalty fee's for 'spending' once inside. and penalties of closing the service early or not agreeing to sign efficiently.
(it boggled my mind all the penalties the LN creators are dreaming up to make hubs(bank2.0) profit)

anyway, you need to really look at what the ethos of bitcoin was designed for. and then look at what its being switched into.

and all i bet you can reply with is "it cant compete against visa's 1billion customer base next month without LN".
to which i will reply. we dont and wont have a billion users using bitcoin next month we dont need to be at that rate next month or next year

let alone not having to worry about 1 billion users.. bitcoin is not even accepted in all the locations visa is. so the transaction count is less.

EG Visa handles on average 42tx a month(for each customer) for a billion customers
bitcoin averages people do 1 transaction a week for about 2.5 million bitcoin users.

what we NEED is to get passed the 2.5million average user utility we are limited at, and get to lets say a 5-10million user utility short term. then grow naturally as bitcoin grows.

1mb =2.5m users doing genuine bitcoin transactions
1mb =260,000 users doing comparable transaction utility to visa

2mb base 1.6mb witness(not combined weight) = 9.1m users doing genuine bitcoin transactions
2mb base 1.6mb witness(not combined weight) = 940,000 users doing comparable transaction utility to visa

again bitcoin is not spendable in all retailers so forget the visa stat(42 uses a month). knowing an average bitcoiner only uses bitcoin once a week
moving to dynamic segwit blocks(with a safe 2mb base 4mb weight) allows for 9.1m bitcoiners to do what they do on average.
moving to restricted segwit blocks(with limit 1mb base 4mb weight) allows for 4.55m bitcoiners to do what they do on average.

i would say going to 4.5m-9mill average user capacity while remaining in the 4mb weight, which core deem safe, is an achievable goal short term and allows more users to use bitcoin. or a quarter of current bitcoiners to start spending 10x more often than usual
without hidden fee's and penalties like LN is promising hubs(bank2.0) can profit from