Quote from: kano on November 27, 2016, 02:20:48 AM

Quote from: gmaxwell on November 27, 2016, 01:53:30 AM

Quote from: achow101 on November 27, 2016, 12:33:11 AM

This behavior is not limited to just segwit but in general for node services; it just happens to be that segwit is the only major node service right now.

Not quite-- NODE_NETWORK exists, and is absolutely required for outbound connections (e.g. doesn't even get the bypass for 40 connections).

In whatever release that comes out after segwit is required NODE_WITNESS will become required just like NODE_NETWORK is. The purpose of outbound connections is to make sure you aren't partitioned and can obtain blocks, they're for your own benefit. Inbound connections are for the benefit of others.

It's not acceptable for the network topology to suddenly change when segwit activates-- can you imagine that? drop all your current connections and then form new ones hoping that the network can make a non-partitioned graph?-- that would be irresponsible. Instead, it changes its connection preference at install time, so if there were any issues they could be addressed while the user is paying attention.

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That's rather interesting, you seem to almost be saying that you can't connect to non-segwit nodes at all with that comment.
Otherwise there would be a problem if it activated and you were connected to non-segwit nodes ...
Well that doesn't match anything else anyone has said ...

Egads. I was saying the exact opposite of you can't connect to non-segwit nodes. In repeated loud text. You can and do.

But once segwit activates you cannot request blocks from them, because they don't provide the witness data that you need to verify the blocks.

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Oh you've never heard of that 95% rule?
[...]

You keep throwing around this word 'partition'.
You forgot that 95% is required?

95% is regard to hashpower. Hashpower is not listening node count.

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So, anyone who doesn't accept incoming connections and only makes outgoing connections with 0.13.1 ...

Is in a perfectly fine state. They'll preferentially connect to other segwit capable nodes (about 40% of reachable peers), but if they can't find enough (or if addnoded/connected otherwise) they'll happily connect to what they can.

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that turned out to be a bitcoin dev scam

Bitcoin Classic dev scam would be more accurate, you should pay attention to who writes things. The author of that "proposal" (which has never even had a BIP written for it) is well known for behavior like that in my circles. Then again, it's absurd that you supported something that hardly gave a clear description of what it would do-- beyond hand more power to miners which I suppose served your "pocket financial requirements" well enough that you didn't even care about the details.

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It didn't suit the bitcoin dev's pocket financial requirements like LN does

Segwit doesn't have much to do with lightning, but good job showing that you've been brainwashed by rbtc. AFAIK no regular contributors to the Bitcoin project stand to gain financially from lightning on Bitcoin, except by virtue of the Bitcoin currency itself becoming a lot more valuable because of more options for using it.