Quote from: BCEmporium on June 04, 2011, 11:20:48 PM

Quote from: realnowhereman on June 04, 2011, 11:13:32 PM

There are plenty of countries that have less socialised health care, that works far better than the US or the European states.

Name one...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Singapore

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BTW, There's no Social Security crisis at Europe, the crisis came from credit disorder and sequent bailing out of banking by states...

Ha! Social security in every country everywhere is one giant Ponzi scheme. It's not a crisis, as it's not going to hit suddenly, it is going to be a gradual erosion.

Besides, pretty much every European government has a large structural deficit (i.e. it's not going away after the recession ends). Part of that structural deficit is the massive social security costs.

I agree that bailing out banks was a bad call; but even if you subtract the massive debts they've taken on on behalf of these banks, the countries are still not financially sound. The credit crisis was the pin, not the bubble.

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A right that requires something be forcibly taken in order to provide it is not on morally sound ground.

Ignore the others' ain't either... morale keeps bouncing and has no ground at all. «I don't want to pay taxes», but probably you want roads, infrastructures... because some folks don't know how to behave in a social environment it takes some measures to teach them. Nothing out of the ordinary, all sorts of primates, from monkey to man, now and then have to kick some butt.

Wow; you also caught me in your clever web of words there. Could it possibly be that there is more than one way to get infrastructure than tax-and-spend?

I still want roads, and I still want a social environment. It is simply my opinion that that can be better achieved with voluntary cooperation instead of enforced cooperation using the monopoly power of force.

As an example (although there are many): in the UK; there used to exist organisations called friendly societies. Workers would gather together and pay (voluntarily) into a mutual fund. When one of the members got sick, or lost a job, or suffered some other misfortune, they would be paid out of this mutual fund. Since the other fund members were usually friends and neighbours, there was a lot less corruption of the system, since it's much harder for people to steal from their friends than it is for them to steal from the amorphous blob that is government. These friendly societies were growing in popularity and solving a real social problem, without intervention from government. Can you guess what happened next? The government stepped in and legislated for publicly provided welfare, and being a monopoly provider killed the friendly societies pretty quickly.

People who think the answer to any question is "more government", can rarely imagine that alternatives are possible. Usually because, despite what they espouse in their politics, they have far less faith in humanity than the libertarians.

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"Eaten up with envy, you become a Socialist, blind hatred makes you a
Nazi - while self-confidence and love of one's neighbour makes the
capitalist." -- André F. Lichtschlag