Quote from: yespeace on December 11, 2016, 01:11:47 PM

Quote from: icojaka on December 11, 2016, 10:04:31 AM

Quote from: MalReynolds on December 10, 2016, 11:58:24 PM

Quote from: icojaka on December 10, 2016, 11:43:21 PM

Quote from: MalReynolds on December 10, 2016, 11:10:34 PM

Quote from: favdesu on December 10, 2016, 11:08:36 PM

Quote from: liotmaan on December 10, 2016, 10:38:19 PM

I did both of that but I didn't get a clear answer from the paper or reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/ICONOMI/comments/5gyhkk/dividends_question/)

I'm not trying to spread FUD but that answer kind of needs to be clear for traders/investors.

the answers are clear in the FAQ and WhitePaper

So what does the FAQ and whitepaper say is the answer to my scenario I outlined to Jani below? I never found a clear answer there.

"Finally, at some time in 1Q 2017 you will make your first dividend payment to the original ICO participants who funded the ICNP original $4.6M. Say for example you invested $500K of ICNP money in the ICO of a new coin. In the week after launch, that coin doubles in price so your $500K investment is now worth $1M, giving an ICNP profit of $500K total. 20% of that $500K or $100K is the amount of profit to be distributed among the original ICO participants.

WHERE DO YOU GET THIS $100K TO DISTRIBUTE AS ETH DIVIDENDS?

Specifically, do you sell 10% of your holdings in the new coin at the end of the first week and hold on to the other 90%? Or do you get the money for dividend distribution from some other source? And if this, WHAT other source?"

Mal,

this answer is simple, I apologize if it was not addressed before.

But first, let me again say that the fees for ICNX or ICNP have not yet been confirmed, so this is just hypothetical ...

If ICNP would have 20/2 fee structure, then 20% of all REALISED PROFITS would go from ICNP to ICONOMI as fees.
But "realised profits" means that ICNP has to CLOSE its position in that "new coin" first. Only if ICNP liquidates whole $1M investment, then $100k (20% of 500k profit) go as fees to ICONOMI. And this can later be distributed as dividends to ICN token holders.

And since vast majority of ICNP's investments will be done in digital currency, so will be later liquidations... For example ICNP recently invested 5000 ETH in Golem, and I expect when this position will close, ICNP will do sell it for ETH...

Clear?

best,
Jaka

Jaka, I thank you for this answer, it helps me understand a lot.

You have been talking about weekly dividends so I thought you were going to evaluate profit for each ICNP coin position on a week-by-week basis and distribute dividends accordingly. Instead, ICNP may go for months or even years before liquidating its position in a given coin, calculating the profit ONE TIME based on that close-out sale, and THEN distributing profit dividends on the position. So there could be many weeks where no ICNP dividend is distributed because no closures of ICNP coin positions occur during that week. And so in weeks where there are no ICNP position closures, any profits / dividends would come only from ICNX or other fees. Correct?

If this is correct, it is a big deal.

Unrealized profits can grow larger and larger on ICNP investments until those investments are finally cashed out and distributed as dividends, pushing the "fundamentals" price of ICN up week after week as investment profits accumulate before cashout and distribution.

Deferred ICNP dividends should immediately show up as a rise in ICN price. Roughly speaking, future increases in ICN price should always be at least 20% of ICNP pre-cashout profits - more, maybe much more, if speculative frenzy kicks in. As the ICNP Fund grows in size, ICN price could take off like a rocket.

HODL !

Mal, that is correct.

There is also a reason why this is the only way. If we would do it as you (mis)understood before, then in a case of ICNP dropping in value (imagine that an ICO into which ICNP had invested, would announce that they have been hacked and all assets stolen) we would have to ask shareholders to "return" parts of already paid dividends to cover loss... Which is of course impossible.

Finnaly few pages of very useful comments

ok, if I properly understand this, we can at all time know how much that fund is worth (assuming that the current value of investments will be known), so the price of ICN's will probabbly be designed from the value and the potential value of these investments - expected dividends?

yes, but only before OFM. Once people will start creating their own funds, the dividends stream will be higher.
So expect either good, better, or even better news in 2017
Wink

Edit:

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Finnaly few pages of very useful comments

I agree. Perhaps we will have our first trolls-free day