Quote from: toknormal on December 11, 2016, 10:35:46 PM

As I said earlier - it's the entire basis for bitcoin's value. On contrary, I'd say that the promoters of obscurity-based tech have "randomly" selected the property to obscure just to suit their particular archetype.

In a fair and just world, where people are friendly and don't want to harm others, a fully transparent transaction history might not pose problems. But since this isn't the reality we live in today, a privacy orientated blockchain is needed as a solution to some of the problems that are part of our current state of civilisation. Maybe sometime in the future, it won't be needed anymore.

Quote from: toknormal on December 11, 2016, 10:35:46 PM

Imagine a transporter full of brand new cars. Then imagine a ledger which holds ownership records of those cars. The cars are not private - they drive around in full view of everyone. The ledger of ownership records is subject to privacy concerns. The two are decoupled - they are not the same thing.

It's more like saying that the ledger can't be money if it's not backed by the cars (i.e. the ledger ceases to have value if the cars cease to exist).

If you build an electronic asset using the cars - base asset as your archetype then possession constitutes ownership, transparency is the priority and anonymity is supported by virtue of the asset being unbacked (i.e. it's not an ownership record referencing some other asset).

If, on the other hand you build an electronic asset using the ownership ledger as your archetype, then privacy IS the priority, transparency can be compromised and anonymity is supported by obscuring the ledger from public view.

Which one looks more like Bitcoin and which more like Cryptonote ? Not exactly difficult.

Could you maybe explain it without analogies? They seem to not make much sense the way you put it.
Am I right in assuming that your logic goes something like this :" Bitcoin is "backed" by transactional transparency and therefore has value, because everyone can see all transactions details, while Cryptonote is "unbacked" and has no value because everyone can only see that coins were correctly transacted but not to whom and from whom"?

Quote from: toknormal on December 11, 2016, 10:35:46 PM

So how to decide which archetype to choose ? You use the first for an unbacked asset and the second for a backed one (such as banking records). Thats why bitcoin has a fully transparent blockchain that is symmetrical in terms of holders and non-holders alike and does not obscure any aspect of its properties. The fact that people can see me getting in and out of my car doesn't change the fact that it's the right archetype.

You don't really explain the reason why you think/believe that transaction transparency is essential for a blockchain to have value and why a blockchain where certain transaction details are obscured can't have value.

Quote from: toknormal on December 11, 2016, 10:35:46 PM

The problem comes when you try to use a record-keeping archetype with a base asset that is not backed. Then you're screwed because it's a mismatch and you will have conflicting priorities regarding the monetary properties of your new asset.

Could you please explain these conflicting priorities and which problems this would cause for a user of such an asset?

Quote from: toknormal on December 11, 2016, 11:33:59 PM

Actually it was to BE value.

Slight difference between a technology that's just transferring it and one that's "being" it. Don't worry, Jamie Dimon makes the same mistake - he thinks Bitcoin's just a conveyor belt as well. If it was, it would be satisfactory to have designed it using a record keeping archetype which possibly explains why you don't see any problem with cryptonopte's approach.

If I understand your view correctly, you think that bitcoins value lies mostly in its total transparent transaction history. Wouldn't you say, that the "immutability" of the transaction history is more important to the value of the blockchain than the transparency of transaction details(sender/reciever)?