Quote from: franky1 on January 06, 2017, 04:45:43 PM

Quote from: jacobmayes94 on January 06, 2017, 04:16:00 PM

It is the ONLY WAY to safely store seeds in the cloud. A weak password would mean you might as well put your private keys in there directly and wait...

storing your seed in the cloud is a risk.
passwords will be weak.

if they were strong.. then the entropy would be huge and you would need to write down the password.
so ask yourself if you have to write down the password. then how is that any different than just writing the seed down on paper.

your reply might be that you want the seed in the cloud, so that if there was a house fire, the paper containing the seed which would burn wont be the only copy of the seed.
but now ask in that same house fire.. isnt your long entropy cloud password also burnt.. meaning you cant access the cloud.

secondly do you think the cloud service will be around in 5 years...(think about that)

the good thing about seeds is that they are separate words.
the best advice is to separate the words and have a cloud account using different cloud services for each word.

that way a hacker or inside man in the cloud hosting service has no access to the whole seed in one go
have the words on separate items around your house. like etch a word into the metal panel of your fridge/freezer etch another on the bottom side of your dinning room table, etc

and then have a puzzle/treasure map you create to know how to piece it together.

but going to these extremes are for those that hold/will hold enough funds worth worrying about

Given the fact I remember the 24 word seed to my main savings wallet with the most coins in it the cloud issue even if it caused me a problem would only affect 20% holdings at most.

These passwords I originally wrote down, and recited many times over and over in the morning and evening until I recalled them and then destroyed them. 30 characters, random letters and numbers mixed in with random CD keys of games I reinstalled over several years over and random words and over complete with random symbols of my choice for the password.

So I think they are safe in the cloud and even if the cloud provider vanished its not my only backup.

As for my main savings seed that covers several grand of bitcoin, that was generated when I set up my first ledger wallet and only ever existed on paper, I recited it over and over until I recalled it perfectly. This was tested when my ledger wiped itself last year. Recalled perfectly without having to refer to the paper copies. I only keep paper copies for if anything happened to me I want my partner to get at the holdings and he is well aware of this fact.

I have my wallet seed(s) encryption file named something like SystemRecovery.bak or PS2MemoryCard.bak (an example) when its actually an encrypted folder, the size is 8MB in line with a PS2 card, for example.

Cloud storage CAN be used safely, if precautions are followed.

The idea of splitting seeds is good though, especially for most passwords used.

Maybe my clear memory is to do with autism but I have a memory like an elephant and despite using these long and random phrases even two years later I was able to open an encrypted file container used with one of these.

An example password (I retired this after it became compromised and it is used for nothing)

59984956bballs-=[]'#pedro-has-a-drill,./1234567891122335

This one ended up being swiped (potentially) when I had my hack last year and I decided to retire it, but this is an example password I have used and none of my other passwords are like it, as it has been retired and changed. Yes maybe I have too much time on my hands remembering stuff like this! If anyone wonders, that was the password to my Bitcoin QT wallet at the time. None of my other passwords even follow a sequence like that.

Another example of a retired password from my childhood

ive-got-news-for-you-boy6563431742-zxzxzxzxzx'#-=452sdfa-fuck-the-system
[Word Phrase that I like] [random recited numbers] [key repetition] [symbols] [random] [word phrase]

That is just one of many password formats I use, many don't even have word phrases but a longer random string in it's place. The random recited phrases and symbols are my version of a 'salt' for the phrase, rendering dictionary and brute force attacks useless.

Good luck finding a password like that via brute force. Lets get a farm of GPUs onto it Wink

And if it's not written down anywhere, it is useless to anyone looking for it that way. Neither of those two were written down whenever I used them.

Given some of the passwords I use, I might as well recite and recall the 12 word electrum seeds instead...

whywouldyouclimbtheempirestatebuilding is too simple and a directory attack would wipe a password like that out

Are my passwords as random as a true RNG? no. Are they better than a crappy PRNG? yes. Do they have enough entrophy to stop brute-forcing? I think so Wink

I use these measures for a few grand, not 100k. Why do I do it? because I don't feel any hacker should have easy access to my funds because they should earn an honest living if they want cash or get a job Wink

! And if by chance they get through all that, they wasted so much recourses for next to nothing for the time involved.

In a program like veracrypt if you are concerned about brute-forcing, pick the slowest hashing algorithm which they give you the option for, would slow down a brute force considerably although if you fear potential brute force the password is not strong enough.