Quote from: toknormal on January 10, 2017, 10:13:06 AM

Quote from: MasterMined710 on January 10, 2017, 09:49:35 AM

Blockchains yes but not 2nd tier layers. In btc that would be something similar to the lightning network (censorship prone 3rd parties, semi centralized, not efficient, more fees) and in Dash that would be the masternode network (censorship resistant - protocol level, decentralized, efficient, less fees).
Masternodes meet your criteria as being fast, mobile, flexible and scalable RPS, but you are right that blockchains don't. Masternodes may not have all that functionality right now but it is coming and coming very very soon.

Ok, you have a point there. Dash's articulated protocol does indeed provide transaction support 1 tier back from the mining protocol, so I'll keep an open mind on how adaptable that may be. The DAPI layer that Evolution introduces a further level of abstraction that will facilitate an even greater diversity of options.

However there are still two aspects of targeting cryptos for merchant adoption that are highly unrealistic in my opinion that I'd like people to keep in mind.

1 the fact that a payments system is primarily a facilitator for a product sale, that's all. The business processes associated with the product sale have a far higher priority than instant clearing and IMO have conflicting priorities with those of a blockchain

2 the whole idea of using bearer instruments to pay for goods and services is positively medieval. It's only needed in a very primitive economy because it basically amounts to a form of barter.

Advanced economies quickly evolve organically beyond using base monetary tokens to a secondary financial "tier" or credit tokens which are far more efficient, flexible and fungible. I keep coming back to the idea of exchanges and some people don't seem to get the point. Why do exchanges not use blockchains to facilitate trades ?

If I asked you right now how many Dash are in circulation (including MN collateral) what would your answer be ? You'd go and look at coimarket.com and tell me there were 7,017,804.

But that's not true. You'd need to add all the Dash-denominated exchange liquidity to that number which would take the total to something approaching 8 million maybe. I know you're going to say that the exchange token simply acts as a proxy for the deposit while you're trading as they are backed "1 to 1" but that's not true either. The exchange token is actually independent of the blockchain token and the two are only connected by a contract of debt between you and the exchange where you are the creditor party. While you're busy trading your Dash denominated exchange token, the exchange can be using your blockchain deposits as it sees fit (as does any bank). They can be invested in masternodes, re-lent out, whatever.

Thats the thin end of the wedge. In this way the "Dash" economy is growing an economic monetary tier on top of the base blockchain token tier and this will typically continue until the "credit" tier dwarfs the base money supply. Thats what happens in a mature economy. The amount of credit money in circulation right now dwarfs the central bank monetary base - it just happens naturally.

P.S. This is why my view is that obscuring blockchain properties in order to "preserve" privacy is a very stupid idea unless you're only intending it to have a role as a payment system. If it's really going to be used as a currency then the economy will quickly mature to the point where most trading is carried out off-chain and where your anonymity is dependent on the particular payment system in use. So, in that regard, the base money supply that backs everything else benefits far more from transparency than it does obscurity because nobody's using it for transactions anyway, however it's of supreme importance that confidence in the base capital asset is supported to the max.

I've been arguing this point with the Monero people lately and they don't like me pointing this out. They say that I am engaging in "inane hand waving" and making a "deluded attempt at economic theory". But it's not economic theory, just plain observable facts. Even 99% of the entire volume of trading in Monero last month took place off-chain, not using their wonderful Ring-Sig system and depending totally on Poloniex's privacy support and not Monero's. Despite that their blockchain still had to sacrifice the open accountability, user symmetry and transparent fungibility that an open blockchain brings.

Not a very good deal.

Great points as always tok.

As to the last p.s. part I totally agree. Not sure our invisible blockchain friends have figured that part out yet though, most people have not. There is still lots of upside potential (offshore dark money accounts) with there tech and newer similar tech. I just hope they eventually realize they will never be the world's reserve currency or even the crypto world's reserve currency. Fundamentals of economic theory insure that. Good luck to them in their other endeavors though, Dash will take care of everything else!