Quote from: af_newbie on January 20, 2017, 01:17:06 PM

Quote from: Xester on January 20, 2017, 11:38:04 AM

Quote from: Mersedes on January 19, 2017, 08:19:33 PM

Quote from: GMPoison on January 19, 2017, 08:06:00 PM

Quote from: af_newbie on January 19, 2017, 07:56:45 PM

Quote from: GMPoison on January 19, 2017, 07:03:12 PM

Every time I comment on this thread the first person to respond to me thinks that I'm talking about Christianity and the god that they recognize, and it pisses me off. I'm not talking about Christianity, Islam, or fucking Hinduism. I'm talking about the idea of some sort of higher power/being or "god", and the absolute fact that you cannot say for certain as you proclaim there is a god or there is no god.

Please, please, please read this. Stop right now and take away all of your preconceptions about me, religion and agnosticism. Please just read this devoid of emotion and tell me if it doesn't make sense.

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Agnosticism, in fact, is not a creed, but a method, the essence of which lies in the rigorous application of a single principle. That principle is of great antiquity; it is as old as Socrates; as old as the writer who said, 'Try all things, hold fast by that which is good'; it is the foundation of the Reformation, which simply illustrated the axiom that every man should be able to give a reason for the faith that is in him, it is the great principle of Descartes; it is the fundamental axiom of modern science. Positively the principle may be expressed: In matters of the intellect, follow your reason as far as it will take you, without regard to any other consideration. And negatively: In matters of the intellect, do not pretend that conclusions are certain which are not demonstrated or demonstrable. That I take to be the agnostic position, which if a man keep whole and undefiled, he shall not be ashamed to look the universe in the face, whatever the future may have in store for him.

The results of the working out of the agnostic principle will vary according to individual knowledge and capacity, and according to the general condition of science. That which is unproved today may be proved, by the help of new discoveries, tomorrow. The only negative fixed points will be those negations which flow from the demonstrable limitation of our faculties. And the only obligation accepted is to have the mind always open to conviction.

That it is wrong for a man to say he is certain of the objective truth of a proposition unless he can provide evidence which logically justifies that certainty. This is what agnosticism asserts and in my opinion, is all that is essential to agnosticism.

― Thomas Henry Huxley

My beliefs are solely based off the logic that is explained in this quote. Please don't call yourself an atheist (as I'm assuming you do) and instead take to the agnostic position, as any logical person would have to do.

It's a beautiful philosophy to live by:

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In matters of the intellect, do not pretend that conclusions are certain which are not demonstrated or demonstrable. That I take to be the agnostic position, which if a man keep whole and undefiled, he shall not be ashamed to look the universe in the face, whatever the future may have in store for him.

Do not twist the issue. There is absolutely no evidence that any supernatural being exists or ever existed. All the religious dogmas are just pure, utter nonsense.

If you want to have an honest, philosophical discussion about 'higher power/force', ok, fine here is one thing you have to remember:

There is no time for 'God' to exist in before the Big Bang. So rest assured there is no God before the Big Bang.

And nobody ever detected any 'God/higher power' in this reality, so whatever you are basing your 'agnostic' position on is based on your dreams and wishful thinking.

You didn't acknowledge what I said. Please read again.

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In matters of the intellect, do not pretend that conclusions are certain which are not demonstrated or demonstrable.

Just because it's never been detected doesn't mean no one ever will. That's just common sense, right? Nothing is ever discovered until it's... discovered, no? Also, your assumption about the big bang being the very beginning is only that... an assumption. Others have made assumptions too that go against that theory.

http://discovermagazine.com/2013/september/13-starting-point

The big Bang theory looks much more persuasive than a fairy tale called the Bible. It seems to me that this is similar to what you'd be offered a ride in the first Ford and don't drive new cars because they did not have before.

I do not believe in big bang theory. Can you prove to me that it is true ? Are you there when it happened? There is more truth in the bible than your big bang theory. The reason why God cannot be proven by science is because we are not god. Only God can prove that he is God. Bible is not a book of reason and scientific discovery it is a book of faith.

Answer this:

Was the Earth created by God 6000-7000 years ago?
Was the universe created by God in 6 days?
Did God create man from dirt?
Did God create the first woman (Eve) from Adam's rib bone?

If the answer to any of the above is a resounding YES, then we have nothing to talk about. You just need to double your medication and stay away from guns or heavy machinery.

There are two more school of thoughts agnostic and gnostic.

* Those who believe God require to "believe" in things/explanation mentioned religious book. To accept something without any proof without verification is to Believe. This causes problem for people who have habit of logical thinking and verification. All religions have different set of believe about God and relation of God with other.
* Those who don't believe in God doesn't have explanation or answer for many phenomenon like How universe was created exactly. Interestingly those who accept this that they don't have definitive answer and are working on the same.

Watching or reading George Carlin helps in solving majority Whether God exists or not.