Quote from: ETFbitcoin on January 24, 2017, 03:03:08 PM

Also, someone needs to explain about SegWit for regular users to prevent misunderstanding.

i have actually tried being unbiased.. and done such

Quote from: franky1 on January 19, 2017, 03:01:14 PM

ok imagine this is a ~450bye tx
*********************************************

input
signature
output

each star represents 10bytes for easy display

if you done the same tx but using segwit p2wpkh keys, the transaction looks like this
*********************************************

one thing that will blow your mind. the blue and red stars(bytes) are still transmitted physically. but at code interpretation level they are not 'counted' as going towards what goes into the base block.

but because at code level an opcode is used to flag old nodes to ignore data after purple. making it look like an anyonecanspend

the other stars (blue, red) are only looked at by new nodes.
old nodes see:********************************************* grey is ignored
new nodes see:*********************************************

while unconfirmed
old nodes wont morally relay or add a segwit tx and instead drop it. however a malicious actor can tweak their code to relay/force it into a oldblock. (hence why wpkh wallet key generation is not released pre activation to avoid malicious attacks)

after feature activation,
because only purple stars are counted (yet more stars are actually transmitted). this trick can allow more transactions into the base block
because they have room for 100,000stars (1mb)

so where say 2222tx's was 100k(1mb) stars. if everyone used segwit keys. becomes ~50k stars(~50%), giving ~50k(~50%) spare room in the block for more transactions
but remember the blue and red is still real data but just not 'counted' by the baseblock

this allows ~5000tx's(depending on ins and out and how many people use segwit keys) into the baseblock but the reality is the actual data transmitted is 2mb even with the baseblock still limited to 1mb

P.S whats said above should be interpretted by the concept. i used rough numbers for demo purposes. dont get knitpicky about the numbers. just learn then concept of HOW the switch around is used and HOW things are 'counted' or 'ignored' by nodes.. and HOW it differs to actual data transmitted

then look at the extra bytes added later when extra features are added.. and have a nice day

highlighting the fact that old nodes drop/ignore uncomfirmd transactions.

Quote from: franky1 on January 23, 2017, 01:34:25 AM

Quote from: gmaxwell on January 22, 2017, 07:07:34 AM

Quote from: franky1 on January 21, 2017, 05:37:28 PM

BUT before confirmation because it appears as signatureless tx (anyonecanspend) old nodes can cause issues.

Pre-segwit nodes know they don't understand segwit transactions so they simply do not relay or mine them.
They don't cause any issues.

you literally said it in the same reply.. they do not relay them.. meaning its an issue..
if a segwit node connected to a old node and then the old node connects to a pool... the pool wont get the tx.. because the old node drops it.

segwit node-old node- pool

so this is where segwit has to mess with what it connects to, to ensure its tx's get relayed to a pool
old node-segwit node- pool

or to get past your padantic sidestepping.. segwit by default looks to find segwits first and then after activation it will have to white list old nodes
edit: old nodes(downstream) of the segwit node(upstream/gatekeeper)

and the fact that there are full(Segwit) and stripped(old) block versions of the same block data..

Quote from: gmaxwell on January 22, 2017, 07:07:34 AM

if someone wants a stripped block they get a stripped block. But every node creates stripped blocks for non-segwit peers that want them,

the network connections of nodes is affected to ensure less issues (this is swept under the carpet). so i done this.

Quote from: franky1 on January 22, 2017, 01:04:54 AM

concentrating on left side below.. the red pool at the centre. going outwards

EDIT:gmaxwell buzzwords
downstream(old) <-> upstream(segwit) <-> pool

upstream(segwit) <-> pool<-> downstream(old)

however not many people will manually want to white list those old nodes and will think 'the pool or someone else can do it', which obviously will be the pools because of them being a segwit node, is able to whitelist some old nodes
and so
the image on the right is more so what the network would look like by adding in some context of human psychy .. bar maybe a couple purple lines that might go between the segwit nodes and the old nodes from some people who may make the extra effort

all because sending a segwit transaction unconfirmed to old nodes and pools not segwit ready has issues.
like i said they have not even got intention to release a wallet with segwit keys (p2wpkh p2wsh). and wont release it until the pools are ready and they have some segwit nodes to act as the gate keepers and translate the data to old nodes(in the left utopia)

please note
the not 100% node utility and not 100% whitelisting old nodes, change how the network dymanics look.
and
about transaction count
not 100% segwit key use, changes how much expectation/achievement of the actual one time boost of transaction count is actually reached.