Quote from: CoinCube on January 26, 2017, 01:59:41 PM

Quote from: iamnotback on January 26, 2017, 07:57:25 AM

God and religion have nothing to do with it. If the men are so stupid that they need to fear a God in order to adhere to the truths they've been taught, then the culture is growing weaker not stronger.

I am arguing for a culture that grows stronger via natural selection and free will of choice. And never did I expect all men to join such a culture because I don't think the bell curve of IQ is ever going to be eliminated.

Note I am honoring your research on evolution, biology, and social organization. I have adopted your defection and culling by free choice themes (which you employed to sell religion). As usual, I am clever about how I assimilate all the information I have been exposed to.

I am quite sure we have more than exhausted the patience of the readers in this thread looking for discussions on Martin Armstrong so I will reply one last time and let the matter rest.

You seem to be so sure of things you do not measure. Did God give you this omniscience?

I have watched the read counts jump by ~500 - 1000 every time I slept for a few hours and reloaded the thread (except this last time it didn't, but I don't know if that is because of the time of the day or some other factor).

We are discussing a very important concept which dovetails with Armstrong's concerns and blogs. And I think many people are interested to know the truth on this matter.

Besides, I am not here to pander to readers. Obviously if I care about what politically correct thinking would think of me, I would have never posted the comments I did over the past couple of days. I bared my thinking in open source, because my main goal is to find someone who can provide a cogent argument which refutes my thesis. If my thesis can't withstand the critical review of open source, then I can't rely on it.

That is why I discussed it openly with my gf over dinner and I was actually surprised to see that she understood or seemed to understand. Her main objections were "you mean I can't bring my kids to the mall" and "are we putting the kids in a prison". And I went off on a long discussion with her about if the society at the mall was not polluting the values of our potential future kids, then we could gleefully bring them to the mall. But if we let our daughter watch these programs on TV which teach her to dress up in a mini skirt and wear high heels at age 6, and she knows that other teenagers are at the mall being mind controlled by George Soros and feeling jealous of their peers, then we've entirely lost any culture we are trying inculcate. I said we must have such social experiences within the community that protects the culture from those external temptations, especially for the females because I related to herself in that whatever she sees other women do, she wants to copy. Why is it women want to color their hair, straighten their hair, buy a new outfit, and still not contented, then color it back, curl it back, change the outfit style again, and then stand in the mirror and anguish over still not feeling contented with themselves. I reminded my gf what happened to her when she ran away from her parents and become a lesbian because her peers influenced her and told her she was naturally a lesbian. And they taught her to drink and have her big breasts sucked by another woman. To do this day, she still always grabs my nipples like I am another woman!

So she understood to some extent. We even talked about her father and brothers who are always drunkard, and her father who never worked and let her mom work like a slave while also bearing several children. He was the disciplinarian who made her knee in salt for making snide jokes that hurt the feelings of her little sister. And I told her I would prefer to talk to the kids and teach that how would they feel if someone else did that to them. And I told her that her and her brothers learned that devious behavior from others. They were exposed to the wrong influences in the society, because I know very well the culture of the filipinos in that so many of them laugh at your when you slip and fall down on a muddy pavement. It is a defect in their culture and I think it comes from the jungle life and laughing a monkeys or something. These jungle people like to laugh at everything. They much rather to get drunk and laugh than to work hard especially the men.

Do you think I like to discuss such personal topics in public! No! But otherwise people won't relate. They won't grab the complete picture. Humans relate to real stories.

Yet man also needs to relax sometimes and have some jokes, but all the participants needs to think it is joke. A joke at another's expense is taking advantage.

Quote from: CoinCube on January 26, 2017, 01:59:41 PM

God is needed because the primary struggle is an individual one. Our greatest battle is with ourselves. It is very easy to say women shouldn't do this or society shouldn't do that. It is orders of magnitude more difficult to say I shouldn't do this especially when I want to and can get away with it.

An intelligent man who doesn't care when he is destroying his own culture, thus naturally selects himself out of the culture. Let the door hit him in the ass on the way out.

You are trying to maintain a total ordering and force people to not defect, but that is impossible. This is why religion has failed. How as a rational person can you propose what has not worked.

Women OTOH can't rationalize about strategy. They only rationalize about their near-term love, emotion, and happiness. The only long-term aspect you can reason with them about is the future of the kids, but they can only see it on a near-term basis of their kids, not a multi-generational strategy basis. Only the men are competitive enough to understand multi-generational strategy. And actually only the smartest and strongest men can. And that is how it should be. The weak men will always be slaves. And so please don't regurgitate that SJW mind control nonsense to me about how we eliminated a form of slavery. That is obfuscation of the reality.

Quote from: CoinCube on January 26, 2017, 01:59:41 PM

Your thinking continues to return to the concept of controlling others (especially women) indirectly through culture when the real battle is that of individual women and individual men learning to improve and elevate ourselves. Cultural structures can help us win or lose this struggle but they are ultimately secondary.

Women can't improve themselves on the multi-generational strategy issue. They are not wired for it. So when I wrote do unto others as you would have them do unto yourself, I obviously do not mean treat me as a woman, because I am not.

So yeah maybe you could use the delusion of a fear of God to keep the women fearful of defection, but it is counterproductive to use it on men, because all you are accomplishing is enslaving the weak men in religion and weakening the culture. And this is why religion repeatedly leads to large scale failure and megadeath.

If you can't trust the men in your culture, then you have no culture. In the Jewish faiths you've been investigating, they apparently defer to elders of men they trust. But they can't trust all the men, because again they refuse to allow the community to be weaned and culled by natural selection of those weak men. The community tries to carry these weak men along, and they are a liability. I am saying let them go. The Bible tells me, "you are not one of them, come out of them".

If I can't control myself to adhere to a correct multi-generational strategy, then how will God help me? By enslaving me in fear? I think you don't trust yourself? Then how can you ever succeed if can't control yourself? If you can control yourself, then why do you need a fear of God?

You object to JAD's desire to use force to enslave and control the black men who can't control themselves (because he wants a society that functions well) and it is well documented that black men have lower IQs and can't control themselves as well as white men, and yet you propose to use religion to enslave and control the men. The bottom line is the weak men will always reap the slavery they sow, one way or the other. They can choose which slavery option they prefer.

No where did I propose that the men in my proposed culture should not leverage the society as a whole. The better that the society as a whole is functioning, the healthier my brothers would be also. There is something to be said for enslaving the weak men and keeping the society from diverging into total chaos. But (as you have also pointed out) slavery leads to top-down manipulation and distortions and is ultimately megadeath culling directed, whether it be the slow route of insufficient fertility or the more rapid forms of culling such as pandemics and war (totalitarianism/socialism end game implosion and lashing out).

I think you must be coming at this from the stance that you want to leave no child unprotected. You seem to be very concerned about what the weak men can do to women and children. That you want to control the defection of society-at-large. I don't think it is my role (I am not omniscient) to choose which form of slavery the people will end up. Nature takes care of that. Religion is one of the options. I want to focus on becoming stronger and not focus protecting weak people against themselves. If I mire myself in that unfixable reality of weakness, I will drag myself down into weakness and waste the rest of limited remaining productive years.

Sorry you've been utterly defeated on this logic.

Quote from: CoinCube on January 26, 2017, 01:59:41 PM

God is necessarily because otherwise we lack the motivation and strength to succeed. Without God our focus inevitably turns away from the self and towards controlling others either directly or indirectly.

I don't lack the motivation and hopefully also not lacking the strength. If we don't have that then we are weak males and we will always be enslaved.

I was not armed with the information I needed, so I had no way to focus myself on what I needed to do in terms of self-discipline. And it is not exceedingly difficult to do from the perspective of self-discipline (although not without challenges), because I get nearly everything I want. It is very difficult to achieve for a myriad of reasons though. And I believe the women get everything they need which really makes them happy. I don't want to have my brother's wife. I don't covet my brother's greater success. I congratulate them. There are so many fish in the sea. I am not insatiable. Yet I am also extremely competitive and I love to compete. So just because I can't have everything, doesn't mean I will become complacent. If I know there is a multi-generational outcome, every effort I give is not a diminishing return. It all helps. It all matters. It rewards my competitiveness, whereas religions (and other forms of forceful collectivism which enslave men) penalize me for being competitive which is entirely wrong and counterproductive!

If you think I am talking about making women unhappy, you are wrong. Women are very unhappy in the cultures we have today. They keep themselves busy on consumption and other patterns to try to convince themselves they aren't unhappy. But (as you have also pointed out) just look at the fertility rate and the lack of closeness of families, rate of destructive behavior amongst their offspring, etc. and you know that women are not happy. And if they think they are happy, then fine. Let them continue in their culture. I am not stopping any female. They have their free will to choose.

But I think women are much happier when they are slightly controlled and given a big, healthy, close family. And especially if that expands into a big, healthy, close community and culture.

Delusion (religion) won't get the males there. Sorry. But of course feel free to pursue what ever you want. If you can make a cogent rebuttal then of course I want to read it. I want to know if someone can show me a better way.

Most men choose to ride a dominant culture. This is in many ways a rational strategy. Give in to some slavery in return for some multi-decade stability and leverage all the parasitism. Inchoate Frankenstein outcomes ferment. As another commentator wrote, "smoking two packs a day and I am fine".