Quote from: Carlton Banks on February 09, 2017, 02:01:46 PM

Nonsense.

Lightning (off-chain) uses blockchain as a reference, it's impossible to make BTC out of nothing. Who would seriously suggest open source code that did that?

Your descriptions of Lightning are so unreal, you're basically talking about a different system that doesn't even exist. How long do you spend reading up on all this, only to become less educated than you were before? Roll Eyes

Quote from: Lauda on February 09, 2017, 03:13:48 PM

Utter bullshit. Having several secondary layer solutions -> decentralization. You also can't create out of thin air on a sidechain due to two-way peg.

Several suggestions have included removing the entire transaction data from a block and only keep it's hash.

And then store the TX data on some other blockchain or servers.

This idea gets thrown around every now and then, that you can see one idea on reddit today:
https://twitter.com/SDLerner/status/830911111209824256
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/5tphbt/sergio_demian_lerner_thinking_lumino_as_a_bitcoin/

They claim that by removing TX data they can have 100 TPS.

So all this cunning plotting and scheming that goes behind the backdoors is what worries me. The block is not a lab rat to try out all sorts of crazy ideas on. If we want a stable system with pre defined constants (21 m coin limit, SHA256 based mining algo, etc), then we also need to agree on one thing.

Which is that the transaction code should not be stripped away.

You do realize that by putting the blockchain data on a 2nd layer, you are essentially creating a centralized database.

What would then be the difference between BTC, and Visa with a handful of servers around the world?

The point of the blockchain is to store all data for reference, and that data should not be treated as trash, because that is the whole point of the blockchain.

Quote from: Carlton Banks on February 09, 2017, 02:01:46 PM

You should already be gone according to that logic. Yet you're still here.

While the IOU's at the exchanges are worrying me, it's mostly a problem for the idiots who will get their coins stolen at the next exchange hack.

But when the entire Bitcoin protocol will work on IOU's, and the blockchain will just be a checkpoint.

Well that is no different than the banking system with 4 day settling period, and inbetween trading REPOS and other fake IOU's inbetween them on overnight basis.