Quote from: iamnotback on February 11, 2017, 01:25:04 AM

I would say I was trying to figure out what I was doing wrong that was causing harm to the world and trying to figure out how the world could be headed towards good, because mostly all I was seeing around me was evil or failure (and this depressing perspective also contributed to my rigor mortis). But the rules didn't seem to help resolve any of that (and rendered even me more powerless and incapacitated). It was also to fulfill a love and respect for my beloved grandfather who said Jesus was the granite he stood on when everything else was sinking sand (product of familycide divorced hippie boomers and running away to the clusterfuck of severe poverty and feral disintegration into a brothel as JAD alludes, etc, etc). After his death in 1996, I taped that leaflet from his funeral on the wall above my computer screen, because I was knee deep in sinking sand all around me. But you know, I continued to sink and by January 2017, I was up to my lips in sinking sand and about to suffocate.

What I see now is that my grandfather actually failed miserably with his offspring (actually I knew that when I was 15 but nobody would let me say it and they always told me to understand my parents ... how many times are we supposed to understand people who are not even trying to change? which brings up back to the point of helping people who aren't trying to figure it out which is I am also sure is how they viewed me but it also how I viewed them!). So as much as I admire him, I now realize he failed. And as I told CoinCube in private several weeks ago, I don't want to end up a statistic (of how males fail in life, if they lacked a father around) so I am fighting back NOW with my mind.

I was not there to witness, so I am unable to make absolute statements. From what you describe - correct me if I'm wrong - it sounds like a "save the world" mentality. Admirable, but overwhelming.

As for the rules, Jesus was the sacrifice to end sacrifices. In doing so, the law no longer dooms humanity to spiritual death if the act is accepted by believing. The offer of forgiveness involves two parties, and if the forgiver is not accepted, then there is no salvation. Acceptance does not obviate adhering to the law, but failing to do so no longer condemns unless the believer rejects God again. Romans 7-8 can be difficult, but explain the changed circumstance.

The love and respect for your grandfather is good, but what he did was what he did and what you do and learn and correct is yours. We all have our own paths, and Jesus makes sure we know that God is the priority - Luke 9:57-62.

While there's no promise of life being easy, and plenty to state that the world will despise you for following Jesus' teachings, difficult times could be discipline or an effort to guide you away from detriment. It's one thing to rely on Jesus for strength to endure, but it's also important to contemplate the circumstances and related mindset to assess whether there's a different course of action you're being directed toward.

Man has the ability to rationalize, and the desire to create vision. Man also can learn to cultivate his ability to listen spiritually despite the noise of the world. On occasion, I've found myself hitting resistance and then being guided to a solution or alternate path that superseded the prior one. In several instances, completely unrelated issues promptly resolved themselves. Some call it coincidence, but when it starts happening reliably...

It also seems that Colossians 3:21 applies. In what sense did he fail? Who was denying you a voice, him or other family? Guidance and discipline are good, but control and domination can distort and tempt on the way to becoming antagonising and domineering. Acknowledging you, even as a youth, would've been a critical first step without which no other progress could be made regardless of whether you were right or wrong. I don't know how you were at 15 but it's all too easy to dismiss or ignore children, and anyone not reflecting on their own actions is foolish - Matthew 18:1-6, Proverbs 15:32.

Quote from: iamnotback on February 11, 2017, 01:25:04 AM

Ignoring natural laws and reality wasn't working. Sorry. God and "love" was a way to become less detached with the hard realities and hard decisions that should have been made and instead were allowed to fester in this nebulous delusion.

Proverbs discusses natural laws to quite an extent. Repercussions are described, and the only time I've seen anything to be ignored is when there is a short-term benefit at a cost of the long-term. That sounds more like human nature, avoiding the issue. People can also be educated into indecision.

Quote from: iamnotback on February 11, 2017, 01:25:04 AM

God will remain unfalsifiable.

And unverifiable.

It would be so simple if God were directly tangible, but then faith and trust wouldn't matter. Yet we have faith and trust in other people who may or may not be reliable to varying degrees. The only difference I see there is a physical presence.

Quote from: iamnotback on February 11, 2017, 01:25:04 AM

Well expressed. Thank you.

Why can't I believe we are all part of holistic system (obviously we are) without the necessity of believing that a fatherly figure has it all under management? Why does the unfalsiable God idol have to enter the picture? That fatherly God certainly didn't have it figured out in my case and I don't want to hear that BS again about how he was testing me and how all the stupid decisions were part of my destiny, etc.. That is encouraging me to continue to fail in some nebulous concept instead of using my brain to figure it out.

My pleasure.

Your belief, and your decision to believe, is always your own. Why do we have the ability to choose?

There are any number of possibilities for your difficulties, some of which might be considered BS. It could be guidance, discipline, punishment, using you as an example such as with Job or maybe you're an easy target for satanic powers. Or it could be that God does not exist and the nihilist view is correct. Does the explanation matter when we aren't currently in a position to fully contemplate all of the variables involved? I certainly don't know, sorry I can't help more there.

Computers are fantastic, wondrous machines. They're also borderline pointless without being connected to one another. Whether computers were created or spontaneously came into existence, the information present within and the communication that occurs among them is a creation far more potent than any individual machine. We may be on the verge of finally creating an AI capable of recognizing its existence, so what does that say about our similarities to God? I think it comes back again to us growing and learning in an environment specifically for that - physical echoes of a true reality beyond the confines of our known universe.

To take a cue from Plato's Cave, how would you explain to Mario that there's a world beyond Koopas and Bob-oms and Piranha Plants where nothing is trying to kill him every waking moment? Would Mario love his creator for offering hope? Or would Mario hate his creator for putting him there in the first place? Or would Mario be indifferent, thrilled by the violence and exhilarating challenge of it all?

If God's presence would tip the scales of choice in a desire to create an entity that truly appreciates its creator, then it makes sense that His presence not be overly apparent. So how to communicate? I'd vote for doing so indirectly using coincidence and prophecy as a solid foundation, potentially with direct intervention at key points or using the rules of the game and environment. Maybe there would be other ways?

I suppose this generally boils down to the notion that if we are derived from something, it makes a kind of sense that our behavior is like that from which we are derived from. Similar to how a cat has an innate ability to hunt and groom itself. That delves into evolution and some notions on time-frames, spiritual placement and earth as an incubator... but that's another conversation entirely.

Quote from: iamnotback on February 11, 2017, 01:25:04 AM

What specific experience do you feel I might ignore that is in the Bible if I don't submit to this supernatural, metaphysical father figure?

Good question. I'll have to ponder that one for a bit.