Quote from: iCEBREAKER on February 14, 2017, 07:31:16 AM

Quote from: hv_ on February 14, 2017, 06:46:34 AM

Quote from: iCEBREAKER on February 14, 2017, 05:44:14 AM

Lightning tx are trustless. They are not some idiotic trusted 3rd party solution like Dash's Masternodes.

Lol

If you really believe this than every other alt is trustless in nearly same manner.

-> Go and use them.

Think:

1. How much energy goes into making bitcoin that trustless it is?

2. How much do you need for LN ?

Pls go and read physics or Shannon about entropy and order -> security.

On-chain scaling is the most secure thing one could do (here you have the biggest hardware + energy investors = miners behind) and we need this first or at least parallel to all the other triggy scalings on top.

Sorry, cupcake. Not impressed. Some of us went to school for this stuff... Wink

I'll see your Shannon and raise you Kolmogorov. Don't make me break out Wiener and Von Neumann on you.

LN *is* Bitcoin, so it uses the same amount of energy for security.

Your failure to understand how Lightning inherits Bitcoin's security isn't anyone's problem but your own.

Educate yourself, then come back when you're ready to play with the big kids.

Here, I'll even spoon feed you like a baby to accelerate the bootstrapping process.

Quote from: https://medium.com/@rusty_lightning/bitcoin-lightning-things-to-know-e5ea8d84369f

Is Lightning Bitcoin?

Yes. You pick a peer and after some setup, create a bitcoin transaction to fund the lightning channel; itll then take another transaction to close it and release your funds. You and your peer always hold a bitcoin transaction to get your funds whenever you want: just broadcast to the blockchain like normal. In other words, you and your peer create a shared account, and then use Lightning to securely negotiate who gets how much from that shared account, without waiting for the bitcoin blockchain.

See? Lightning is 100% Bitcoin. It's just a clever way to efficiently arrange blockchain writes, yielding massive gains in effective TPS.

Lightning isn't Layer 2, if that's what you're afraid of. Think of it as layer 1.5 and maybe that might help you understand using spatial intuition.

Only correct thing in this rage-post is: You did not dare arguing against:

'On-chain scaling is the most secure thing one could do (here you have the biggest hardware + energy investors = miners behind) and we need this first or at least parallel to all the other triggy scalings on top. '

I'll let you play with LN in LitecoiN - so you have time for self-education.