Quote from: Spoetnik on February 19, 2017, 08:44:01 AM

Quote from: dinofelis on February 19, 2017, 06:37:56 AM

Quote from: Spoetnik on February 19, 2017, 12:44:44 AM

Yeah ?
And how does that apply to Monero (The Topic)
Have i not been over this already ?
More diversions ?

Monero is one of the more successful crypto coins implementing anonymity as a core feature. If you are going to be outside of the law, you better have some anon tech. And if you are going to be "inside the law" and law abiding, you don't need crypto: fiat is better. What is outright dangerous, is to be outside the law with a transparent crypto. What is outright meaningless, is to be a law-abiding crypto. So the only MEANINGFUL crypto is anon crypto. Maybe "crypto outside the law" is a failure, but then ALL OF CRYPTO is a failure, because crypto has no meaning "inside the law". It is a ridiculous concept, that is just as ridiculous as "fire arms that cannot shoot". Maybe owning fire arms is a failure, and then fire arms as a whole are a failure. But in any case, owning non-shooting fire arms is ridiculous. IF you consider fire arms, they should be able to shoot. IF you consider crypto, it should be anonymous.

That's the relationship with the subject.

See? You and all the other shill's just did it again.

You say it's successful because you say it's successful.

You are visibly logically impaired. I don't say that it is successful. I say that if ever a crypto is to be successful, it has to be outside the law, and in order to be successful outside the law, certain aspects like anonymity are needed. Logically, this doesn't mean that crypto is successful or that monero is successful. It only implies that if crypto doesn't include anon tech, it cannot be successful.

(it can rise in price, but it cannot be successful as a crypto: it has to become a form of fiat in that case).

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Dino you just finished telling us all about the Greater Fools game.. exactly !
Hence price means fuck all and you KNOW IT !

Of course not. The price doesn't mean anything. The price of all crypto is at least 2 orders of magnitude too high. If not more.

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Dino you keep trouncing around this concept that a crypto coin SHOULD be anon right ?
Well..
Think of it this way.. the entire system is contingent on ANON being a success.

Yes.

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security ? and adoption ?

I have addressed the security lots ..i have an old topic here called [FACT] Anon coins will never work !
And take a wild guess what i said on it ?

Then crypto will not work, that's all I'm saying. Crypto without anon is like guns that cannot shoot.

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Adoption has to be the key right ? Or it's not a currency.

Of course not. Adoption is not needed. In principle, a crypto can work if two people use it. Of course, adoption is nice, because it opens up the economic possibilities. The more an economy is large, the more possibilities for economic interaction there are. But wide adoption is optional. If adoption implies denying the fundamentals, then adoption is not only not needed, it is even a bad idea.

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ANON tech is mandatory ?
Ok let me play along then.. let's say it is..
Well then, is it adopted and USED yet ?
NO !
The Monero shill's here down played their DM coin involvement after it was pointed out it was looking bad.
They went on to claim it was *ONLY* used at 3% of the Dark Markets.
SO ? Get it ?
You can not claim it's a success for that reason then either because it's not used on DM's Cheesy

The problem is that DM are only a niche, namely mostly unhealthy stuff like drugs and so. But they are a nice test bed for the robustness of their anon systems. The idea is to become a coin of all underground economy. But of course not for the law abiding economy. That would be silly. In the law-abiding economy, you should use fiat, and nothing else.

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So what is left ?

All economic interaction that wants to be free of state interference.

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I also previously alluded to the fact that it seems to me that the Monero shill's are putting all their eggs in one basket claiming ANON tech is the big meal ticket.
If that is the case then i said you face a barrier.. the law !

But if the law is the barrier, only fiat can work. Only fiat can be in agreement with the law. There's no reason for crypto within the law. It is a silly idea.

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The existing Financial machine around the world is not going to link up with and support Monero.

The existing financial machine around the world will only work with fiat. Crypto will only part of that in as much as crypto has become fiat. There will be a period where it will seem that crypto can thrive with big finance, but sooner or later, all crypto that does so will become fiat. Exchanges will become institutionalised, wallets will be state-owned, mining will be state-owned and protocols will be state-dictated. Give it 10 or 20 years.

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And never mind implementing sketchy forum code made by kids onto world wide financial systems that need to be battle hardened tested and secure ..see my above fluffypony comment Wink

Crypto's goal is to do without that world wide financial system. If you want to be part of it, you should use fiat.

There's no room for non-fiatized crypto. They will do as they did with gold. First, they let greater-fool gamblers pump their value in it, and when it is big enough, they will simply confiscate it and fiatise it. With the Law.

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You think a big bank wants to have a major partnership with Risto's estimated half million doll bags he's holding ?
Think of it this way why did the Jaxx wallet dev quit Monero support ?
Because the Monero dev's randomly decided to break the system on him forcing him to rewrite all his code.
And he didn't want to do that.

And that's good, because that's not what crypto is for. If you want to have a practical way of handling legally complying payments, use fiat. It is much better at it.

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In other words the coin Monero is in fact centrally controlled by Risto and his minions here.
And a bank partnership would be linked to that as the bank leaders around the globe playing second fiddle to King Risto and his paid employee fluffypony & friends and what ever whims he has at the moment (which has proven to be problematic see the Monero MEW topic)

Monero being an open source project, anybody can fork it and do with it what he/she wants. Like with bitcoin. Everybody can fork bitcoin. If nobody does, that is that nobody really wants to. In fact, what happens to monero doesn't matter, does it. You only use it to sell goods, obtain it, and then to buy other goods with it. The day that you don't like monero any more, you can use an alternative to do so, no ? The day you don't like Openoffice, you can use Libreoffice, no ?

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Even though the simple fact is if it was exploited the entire system would fall apart at once.
Once one transaction is exposed every transaction ever made would be..

How is that ? If tomorrow, I post my secret key of a monero address, all monero transactions would be deanonymised Huh

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Like analogies ?
A firearm is used as such as the inventor intended.. Monero is not.

How's that ? First of all, most fire arms are probably not used as the inventor intended. If I buy a gun to kill my mother in law, that's probably not the intention of the guy who designed the gun maybe 50 years ago. Second, I would think that monero is used as intended, as a tool to transact tokens in a non-transparent way.

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In order for a currency to be validated by the worlds major 1st world govt's it has to be bail-out-able.
Yeah i just made up that word Wink

Would the govt of the USA bail out a Monero system in a recession like that have and will again in the future with FIAT ?

This is exactly why no crypto can ever be integrated with the law, unless the government mines it, changes its protocol at will, can confiscate any possession, can reverse any transaction and will prohibit non-governmental mining (called counterfeiting). And hence, why legal crypto is ridiculous.

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No fucking chance.. so it would mean they won't let it slide into the existing financial structure.

That is exactly the (sole) aim of a cryptocurrency. Not being able to be integrated in the existing financial structure. All the rest is called fiat.

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Which would mean they have to allow terrorism financing and money laundering etc just to bend the rules for Monero.. not happening.

If you cannot finance terrorism with it, it cannot be a crypto. Because if a crypto stands for unstoppable payments, it must be possible to finance terrorism with it. If for some reason, you can't, it means that that crypto is not living up to its sole goal of economical freedom.