Quote from: jpoker272727 on March 06, 2017, 09:12:23 PM

Quote from: iamnotback on March 05, 2017, 10:11:26 PM

Quote from: jpoker272727 on March 04, 2017, 06:34:54 PM

Why do you think that app tokens have no value, when we are able to trade it for bitcoin in exchanges?

The ability to trade something doesn't necessarily give it any particular value. I said they have no utility and thus no value other than as a unit of speculation. But the supply of units of speculation is not going to be limited, as everyone jumps on board offering Ethereum smart contract project app tokens.

My point is that when someone makes a project that enables apps to be monetized by some means other than app tokens, then those app token projects will have competitors who have viable business models, whilst app tokens have no utility and thus are not viable (per the reasons provided in the OP). So app tokens will collapse in value at that point. And I think that will be coming soon enough (perhaps in 2017).

Then can we compare app tokens with bitcoin or any other altcoin, are we now in the same page or these are two different things (from the value perspective)

I think that bitcoin can be joined here too as it has value but it changes by the speculation, investments and other factories which can lead to pump or dump the bitcoin price.

We know that if people are not interested in a coin then the price/value of that coin will drop dramatically until 1 satoshi or zero.

You are completely ignoring certain key points that were made in the OP, especially the point highlighted in red text below which is that we will never end up with many viable altcoins. We will end up with one token, because that is the way money works. Humans are herding animals. They like to all rally around the same standard, so they feel safety in numbers. Money only has value due to public CONFIDENCE, meaning that everyone else uses it as money.

Quote from: iamnotback on March 04, 2017, 12:57:06 PM

Quote from: iamnotback on February 28, 2017, 09:20:05 PM

Quote from: https://medium.com/@wmougayar/watch-out-the-icos-are-coming-d734e14fa709#.ptuoav8u6

Token utility linkage is not always there

The assumption that everything with a potential network effect is going to work with a decentralization starting point is not entirely true. The blockchain is not for everything.

The solution or product being developed needs to have a solid business model linkage that has a particular value when decentralization and/or tokenization of actions take place. The promise of a new model needs to be very compelling.

In the name of decentralization, the promises are big. You cant just slap a token to anything, and expect magic to happen.

The token is not the business model. The value proposition or utility that is enabled by the token is the business model, and that linkage needs to be there early on. If the direction is not right, the chosen path will not lead to a good place.

The marketing hype is frightening

Some ICOs are being marketed like a rocket ship, but in reality, no startup is a rocket ship. A lot of the communication is biased towards the most optimistic assumptions, but nothing goes up in a straight line.

Quote from: iamnotback on March 03, 2017, 03:57:12 PM

Quote from: dinofelis on March 03, 2017, 03:44:57 PM

I see potentially a web of gazillions of currencies, connected by gazillions of distributed exchanges.

I used to think that. I even offered an idea and discussed (in the Bitcoin Technical discussion forum) with @TierNolan and @jl777 how to deal with the jamming (Sybil attack) problem of his atomic cross-chain exchange protocol.

Decentralized exchange singular (not distributed exchanges as that is what we have now) won't ever be adopted because speculators want the highest liquidity, the lowest spreads, the fastest trades, and the most accurate aggregate trading statistics. I have instead switched my focus to a payment channel invention I have which can make it impossible for centralized exchanges to lose coins (i.e. the user never gives up the private key control).

Gazillions of currencies won't work because there are huge losses for businesses and individuals when not having the same unit-of-exchange as the unit-of-account. Hedging just the major currencies is already a major headache for international corporations. This is why Germany created the Euro so they could charge the cost of the appreciation of the German mark (due to Germany's higher industrial productivity) to the PIIGS.

Quote from: iamnotback on February 28, 2017, 02:16:56 PM

...But now we are entering a new phase where there will be an an oversupply (market saturation) of ICOs which have copied that "the ICO is the launch of the reality distortion field" paradigm. Ethereum is spawning offspring (i.e. smart contract) copycats of its own reality distortion field business model, which may cannabalize ETH itself.