Quote from: bitbit on April 12, 2013, 07:11:32 PM

Quote from: myrkul on April 12, 2013, 05:44:22 AM

Put simply: Ideas aren't property.

You can't own a pattern of bits.

Ideas/information are not a pattern of bits

That is a very materialistic view.

You're right, some are patterns of words, some are patterns of lines or colors, some are simply patterns of neural impulses.

Quote from: bitbit on April 12, 2013, 07:11:32 PM

If information is not property, then privacy laws have no moral basis. Espionage should be perfectly legal. If one breaks into a house and find sensitive information the break-in itself will be punishable, but not the spreading of sensitive information found in the house during the break-in. One could also prick someone with a needle and acquire blood which allows one to get hold of that person’s DNA. A needle prick in itself is not a major violation and would therefore not be severly punished, but to map that other person’s DNA and spread sensitive data about that person’s genetic disorder must be legal since this is only information, which is not property.

These are all good points. But they come from a flawed perspective. First off, intent plays a great deal in the decision of proper punishment for a crime. Breaking into someone's house with the intent of, say, taking a nap on their couch is considerably different, and does less harm, than breaking into someone's house with the intent of finding sensitive information and spreading it about. Likewise, an accidental prick with a sharp object, say, a piece of your clothing, has much lower harm to the victim than does an intentional prick with a needle with the intent of copying and analyzing their DNA. Both are relatively minor offenses when considered on their own, but when the effect of the intent of that offense is included into the calculation, it becomes quite severe.

Quote from: bitbit on April 12, 2013, 07:11:32 PM

Furthermore, to be consistent anti-IP people must argue that contracts cannot exist because all that exists are atoms. In other words, one can scribble on a piece of paper or make sounds with one’s mouth, but these cannot be legally binding since information does not exist.

Did I say Information does not exist? No, I said that information is not property. Be careful not to confuse the two concepts. The contract is the physical proof of an agreement. It's not binding because you wrote on the paper, it's binding because you agreed to it. The paper is just proof that you agreed.

Quote from: bitbit on April 12, 2013, 07:16:33 PM

Threats will also be legal. This after all is just a series of noises. To be consistent a libertarian must claim that only a physical violation is illegal. A rapist who threatens his victim with a knife will not be convicted in court unless he physically hurts his victim because he will claim that the knife is his and he was taking it for a walk. Sure, he uttered a few words about killing the poor woman if she did not obey him, but they were just sounds and it is her own fault if she interpreted those noises as threatening.

Tsk... and now we're just leaping off the deep end. Mike answered this far better than I was going to - with almost exactly the same argument, I might add - so I'll just leave it at that.