Quote from: bigrcanada1 on March 17, 2017, 08:07:59 PM

Quote from: HR on March 17, 2017, 05:45:32 PM

Quote from: toknormal on March 17, 2017, 02:52:21 PM

Quote from: HR on March 17, 2017, 01:45:49 PM

Was there something there in your list that deals directly with anonymity and people's fundamental desire to have their store of value (i.e. money) directly and legally identifiable and tied to them

Yes. This one:

How you get from anonymous bearer-tokens to named-account base money and how they compliment each other
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1709631.msg17158283#msg17158283

The thing is, Im not referring to the philosophical debate about the intrinsic value of money, rather Im talking about what is mine, regardless of medium.

My house is mine. Ive got a title of public record that demonstrates such ownership. Nobody can take it away from me without my consent (excepting the government under whose jurisdiction I live, and only in extremely exceptional cases). Nobody can rob my home without everyone knowing about it and it ultimately being restituted. The same goes for anything I own stocks, bonds, a car, a boat, etc., etc.

Whether or not the faith and trust in the intrinsic value of the legal tender under question is well-founded is another matter completely.

I basically agree with your trust versus trustless dichotomy, and I definitely prefer the latter. That having been said, I prefer the latter with public record status, which is to say that I would prefer every cryptocurrency coin I buy to be legally linked to my person in a public manner, i.e. coin X purchased in Y Txid on coin Xs blockchain is marked as being mine with my name and national identity number. Any coin I spend would also be duly marked as having been transferred to the buyer. In that kind of a cryptocurrency world, I would always be able to ultimately gain restitution for theft or even a mistaken send.

The "bearer token" archetype is incompatible with that, and is precisely the reason why I postulate that mass adoption, other than to have some spending money" in crypto, wont happen until buyer and seller information are time stamped into each and every transaction. I also suspect that governments will ultimately force this on the cryptocurrency world in order to protect the unwitting, or at least force the noncompliant to post a warning that their money is not protected and that they could lose it at any time, even with the most innocent of mistakes like not having a backup when their disk drive crashes.

Whats more, if I cant legally demonstrate having paid for something (like something I buy using BTC), how can I legally demonstrate that what Ive bought is legally mine? I could easily be accused of not having paid and be sued for the amount due I received it and signed for it as would be shown by legally admissible evidence like shipping records, but I have no proof what-so-ever of ever having paid. Oops.

This is what I am putting up for debate. Is the road towards anonymity a dead end? How many people have bearer token cash, or even gold or silver, hoarded at home? Yes there are a few, but that group takes us down to a very niche market, and not mass adoption.

Mr HR...there are many of us that have been hoarding and amassing gold, silver and currency. It is much more prevalent then you are letting on...This talk of lack of proof of legal ownership makes me think that maybe you are in the employ of the "system" are an advocate for governmental & banking forces.

Its absolute hog wash that you need instruments that can prove legal ownership of items that can be used as store of value or currency. This discussion and position that you are taking is exactly what crypto is about...for us as individual to take ownership and privacy of your own personal affairs.

Its interesting that you are advocating for instruments that prove legal ownership....here's a news flash...I own because its in my possession, you want it...then you need to come take it from me over my dead body.

All these systems of protection of your assests is absolute rubbish and have been set up for nefarious reasons. My grandparents moved to Canada from the old country with their money sewn to the inside of their coats. They built very successful businesses and bought their land with cash...like I learned to do the same. Ohhhh...its not easy...the system fights and raises all sorts of red flags. But...its my choice and my legal right...and its becoming the choice of many others. Crypto currencies will foster a whole new generation of individuals that will fight the powers that wish to control us, with scare tactics that You may loose your funds if you don't use the systems they are proposing.

Several years ago...my wife and I liquidated all of our "paper" based assests. Stocks, bonds, gic's and all our RRSP's and moved everything into gold and silver. Let me tell you...my bank was not happy...and tried to put every road block and every excuse...JUST LIKE YOU MR. HR are telling us of why we shouldn't do that...but we did it. And guess what...we soon found we weren't alone...our local gold and silver broker soon became a close friend and we discovered we are a part of a very quickly growing group of individuals. Its not as uncommon as you are trying to let on....maybe you work for the banking system Mr. HR? You know full well that cryptos main pillars is privacy and Independence of the banking systems tyranny. That until recent modern times...these legal trinkets you speak of didn't exist. People were smarter...valued money more because they were in the ultimate control...including its safe keeping. You may wish for a more docile population that is learning to live in a plastic bubble of protection.

You should evaluate why it is your in this crypto ecosystem. I know why I'm here and why I pick DASH. Privacy, control and independence of my own financial affairs.

that is a very nice story, I like it except the DASH part..

personally I like it if you will replace evan duffield as DASH leader since he is not coding anymore, DASH is just employing programmers now.. a wine man can do what Evan is doing (as a leader)...the only problem is Evan and his friends instamined a lot of masternodes (voting for Evan)... so that's not gonna happen LOL