Quote from: HR on March 18, 2017, 08:49:38 AM

Quote from: toknormal on March 17, 2017, 11:28:24 PM

Quote from: HR on March 17, 2017, 05:45:32 PM

I would prefer every cryptocurrency coin I buy to be legally linked to my person...I postulate that mass adoption, other than to have some spending money" in crypto, wont happen until buyer and seller information are time stamped into each and every transaction

You make a very good point.

The thing is, it can't be done justice to by a single monetary tier. In an advanced financial system the trading currency (units which measure the value of the trade) is abstracted away from the collateral that backs it.

If you want to actually use the collateral itself to exchange for the good or service you're buying then that would be barter.

In the case of cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin, they are unbacked electronic assets and so qualify as collateral. When it's deployed in a commercial role though, it does in fact have your name on it - just like your house.

Here's two examples:

1. When you want to trade it for other currencies on a commercial trading platform you enter into a contract with an exchange whereby the contract assigns ownership of a certain quantity of blockchain balance to a designated individual (you). That balance may be fixed or floating depending on the contract (i.e. your balance might be at a designated address or a non-designated one). You then proceed to trade all day long, each one of those trades being registered, tracked and identified as being you. Finally, when you're finished you withdraw funds to the lower monetary tier where owner and possessor are no-longer distinct entities. (i.e. the owner IS the possessor)

2. If you have a Bitcoin backed credit card, you can move funds into a blockchain address that the credit card company designates. They will then credit you with a "tier 2" monetary token that is tradable in trading currency units as opposed to blockchain units. Again - all your trades will be recorded, identified and tracked and if you get stuff stolen in that monetary tier you will have recourse to a third party to restore your balance.

What you can't do is stamp your name on a bearer token - because then it would no longer qualify as such and consequently not qualify as bottom-tier collateral. (Because you need a third party to endorse the ownership). You COULD however enter into a barter trade with a bearer token because the mere fact that you hold it - means that you own it.

Put another way, potatoes don't grow out of the ground with anyone's name on them. Diamonds don't, coal doesn't and gold nuggets don't.

Thats the asset class that cryptocurrencies belong to. Like the potato, the diamond and the nugget that emerge from the earth, a crypto coin emerges from mathematical solution space....with nobody's name on it

REF: A good reference on monetary tiers in the fiat system is the Bank of England website. Here you can see how one tier backs another and how successive layers become more articulate in terms of their monetary priorities but further away from the collateral that backs them as well as less liquid. The BofE has about 5 tiers, (only 3 of which are in use I think). They are named M0...M4

Base money supply tier:
http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/statistics/Pages/iadb/notesiadb/m0.aspx

M4 (Broad money supply) tier"
http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/statistics/Pages/iadb/notesiadb/m4.aspx

All developed and developing nations use something similar. Its the way they measure the amount of different types of money in circulation and basically classified in terms of liquidity. Nevertheless, there is no difference between any of them in terms of rightful ownership - that is unless you have bearer notes physically on hand, which in the US is the equivalent of M0 (and doesnt actually "back" any of the higher tiers either). The rest of the monetary aggregates are all on the books, and if its yours, its demonstrable. You own it! That's what I'm talking about: proof of ownership (even when it's highly liquid M1 currency!).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_supply

I liked this analogy of yours:

Thats the asset class that cryptocurrencies belong to. Like the potato, the diamond and the nugget that emerge from the earth, a crypto coin emerges from mathematical solution space....with nobody's name on it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asset_classes

Commodities do indeed start in their raw material state, but then bars are made (gold and silver) and serial numbers are assigned, and then, when we buy them, they are legally assigned to the buyer. My gold bars are mine, and they are legally documented as such. Of course they could be melted down if they were stolen, but then who would buy that melted down gold knowing its stolen? In any event, since this is a terrible digression from the topic and something that will invite all the nuts to come out of their holes, Ill leave this as an aside and continue with my main point: with crypto we have the unique opportunity to immediately assign a unique identity to the raw material immediately upon coming into existence AS WELL AS legally assigning it to its finder. It is electronic gold that can be labeled (and cant ever be melted down) and assigned to its rightful owner the moment it comes out of the cryptographic ground.

Thats what Im talking about, but I suspect it is a major non-starter, not just here, but in the crypto world in general. Unfortunately the underlying meme has been so strong (Im not sure why other than accounting for legacy marketing strategies) that everyone has their blinders on.

I actually agree with you, I just don't get how this is somehow meant to prove that Dash is bad.
The only caveat would be that with M1 upwards you don't own any "money", just a legal claim on some legal tender against the emitting banks promise to pay you the amount displayed on your bank account. For instituionals it's TBills etc. The closest thing to what non banks know as Cash.