Quote from: Lauda on March 18, 2017, 12:08:40 PM

Quote from: dinofelis on March 18, 2017, 12:03:31 PM

Quote from: franky1 on March 18, 2017, 10:24:24 AM

never said hashrate. i said majority. learn consensus

In a proof of work system, majority is majority of hash rate. That is what consensus is about. In a proof of stake system, majority is majority of stake. And in a proof of node system, majority is majority of nodes. Easily Sybil attacked, hence not meaningful.

No. You don't understand how consensus works. Even I agree with franky1 on this one.

I explained the mechanism in every detail. Just saying "you are wrong" without any logically build argument, is no tt going to cut it. I know many people are deluded on this, but the earth goes around the sun, and not the other way around, no matter what the Cardinals have been preaching. Learn to think for yourself.

In a proof of work system, the consensus is made by those providing proof of work. But ultimately they will take into account those that pay for the joke, that is, the users in the market. And that's it.

Counter my argument that:
1) if miners agree (PoW consensus), there is only one single source of block chain, namely the chain on which they work, and which can only be obtained from one of their nodes
2) there ain't any other block chain around
3) all that non mining nodes can do, is download this block chain, directly from one of the miner's nodes, or from a copy of one of their peers, but if they want to have a block chain, they'll have to obtain it.
4) miners, in order to be efficient, have to have good direct connections amongst their own nodes, in order to be quickly aware of the new blocks so not to get orphaned
5) miners, having invested a lot in mining, can easily set up "data center type" nodes to which ALL other nodes that want a copy of the block chain, can connect, and non-mining node owners cannot have any other block chain than the one they can obtain from one of these "big" nodes. As long as the distributed network of proxy nodes does the work for them, that's OK, but if they have to invest in such a big data center node, they will, because they want to serve their customers, the users, and get their transactions, and deliver the block chain to them, so that these users continue to pump money in the market where the miners sell their coins.
6) if a non-mining node doesn't agree with the block chain that is produced by miners, it simply stops because there is no other chain around. A non-mining node cannot stop miners from making the chain THEY agreed upon.

As such, this proves clearly that in a proof of work system, the consensus is the one between those delivering proof of work and no-one else.

But, these proof of work deliverers will take into account all signals from the MARKET to optimize their earnings (that is, to optimize the amount of coins they can get from reward and fees, times what the market sets as a price for those coins). In as much as nodes are an indication of the sentiment amongst market makers, they will take that into account in their consensus to optimise their earnings.

Exercise:
1) suppose ALL miners agree upon 4 MB blocks, even though all users want to have 1 MB blocks. The miners only make one chain, with 4 MB blocks. What are users and nodes, including exchanges, going to do ?

2) suppose that ALL miners agree upon 1 MB blocks, even though all users want to have 4 MB blocks. The miners only make one chain, with 1 MB blocks. What are users and nodes, including exchanges, going to do ?

Tell me how nodes impose their will onto miners, if miners come to a consensus.