Quote from: MatTheCat on April 14, 2013, 01:48:03 AM

Quote from: hlynur on April 14, 2013, 01:16:05 AM

imo complete bullshit and a sight of germany that is from the late 90s.
I'm german and the multiculturalism has changed in the last decade for good.
Main problem in germany in the past was that every minority that came from other countrys to work here were mainly rural people that had much more tendencies to stay in their communities than people from bigger cities which pushed the segregation. that given and the problem of a more right than centered government for longer than 10 years (which made politics not in favor of multiculturalism) the reunion of germany build a vaccuum, because eastgermans haven't even met foreign people in their life, but for russians and people from exsovietunion states.
as a result many eastgermans got right-wing tendencies which peaked in an assault of a hostel for asylum seekers in rostock-lichtenhagen 1992.
after that the masses woke up and up to now every march of right-wing extremist in citys is accompanied by huge counterdemonstrations.
The second generation of immigrants especially turks is integrated in german society much better because of growth of their middleclass.
At the moment we have problems both with small rightextremist (Nationalsocialist Underground has killed 23 immigrants) and muslim extremist groups (mainly salafis).
But these people represent less than 1% of german society. imo in every other country there are the same problems, in germany it is dealt even better with it because of our history. (although the authorities still need to evolve in that point)
The flood of immigrants since the crisis right now is immense (50.000 people mainly from greece and spain), but they all go to the big cities which evolved to huge melting pots, where the prejudices are not as big as in rural areas.
So to finish my history lesson everythings going relatively well and i really doubt that during a big crisis germans start bashing the immigrants.
The right-wing groups will get more attention for sure, as in every country when a society starts crumbling, but i doubt that things will happen like in greece where small groups start hunting immigrants through the streets. (ok if everythings shattered every society has these phenomenons. in great-britain extremists would probably start hunting pakistanis)
The main advantage of german society is its past because that pushes awareness much more earlier to fight xenophobia than in countries that don't have that history.

sorry big post here, but as a german hearing such stuff quite often from foreigners this is the only thing that pushes in me some tendencies to be proud for my country.
and imo hitler is quite funny (you knew he was on meth most of the time at the end?), we have lot of parody movies of him.
(by the way merkel is a big fat bitch)
....back to bitcoin please!

Firstly, you cannot post a comedy Hitler picture and declare victory in a forum argument.

Secondly, with all due respect, what you have wrote is just your own personal take on things, which is very different from that of many other people, and I include German people in that. For example, at current breeding rates, native German's are set to become a minority in their own country within 70 years. Perhaps there is as much chance of this happening as there was of Bitcoin smashing the $1000 barrier, but with current immigration and breeding rates held even, this is what would be set to happen. I know this because German political establishment figures consider these sort of things such a problem that books have been written about it.

The multiculturalism problem however, and by that I mean largely segregated minority communities, is a pan European problem, not just a German problem. Certainlly in the UK, it is a huge problem and tensions are on the rise. Of course, as long as everyone has full bellies and enough people consider themselves as 'middle class', then there is not likely to ever be problems on a large scale. Real problems will only arise when the wealth stops flowing in.

The other thing I wrote about was probably a bit abstract for this forum and certainly way off topic. But basically I am paraphrasing Jungian psychology which would suggest that the way in which Germany has handled its 'war guilt', i.e. through streng self repression and punishment, wouldn't be a method of handling the issues that would help bring closure to the issue.

Firstly, sorry that was perhaps a bit too much, i should have marked it as german irony

secondly, right perhaps i live in that small mulitcultural bubble in the city where i don't see the main problem. I know that breeding levels in germany are a problem and society is shifting more and more to excess of age.
But you can't say germans will become a minority in their own land. It's mixing up and society is sucking up a big part of the different minorities. Some of my best friends are this second generation of immigrants and they see themselves as germans with immigrant roots. I think that the european union surely is seesawing beetween melting together and segregating at the same time (more extremly during times of crisis), but i would foresee a developement like in USA. Sure it takes centuries for that to happen, but every american sees himself firstly as american and secondly as a mixture of different origins. imo europe is also going to become more and more a melting pot like america after a long period of time and no doubt there will be many battles but that's good for the longterm. Every destruction builds up a change to the better. At this topic I always think in timespans of 100 years or more. There will perhaps be some national dictatorshiplike tendencies in several countries that slow this progress down but in the end I believe there will be that european citizen that sees himself as that.

And about that Jungian philosophy you have to take in mind that with every next generation that part of our own history is handled with a much more distant and abstract approach and less feeling of being "guilty" that is "deep-rooted" in german brains. The movement of the first post-war generation in germany evolved 1968 because there was no real reflection at all up to that point but mostly denial (I'm second post-war generation and sure i heard things from my grandfather, but personally the only thing i internalized from it all is no feeling of guilt but awareness of what's happening politically and going on the streets when things seem to go wrong.
There are countries around germany that have far more problems handling their history during that time because there was little to none internal reflection at all but complete denial and pushing guilt towards the germans. (e.g. italy with mussolini and the complicity in many countries that were occupied by nazi germany)

I think your thought process is kind of right at the beginning but personally it corresponds to me more to the mood in germany during the 90s. At the latest since World Cup 2006 things have changed. That was the first time since the fall of berlin wall that I saw germans had no feeling of guilt when waving their flag and since then the penny has dropped in a way.
but hey that's just my personal opinion and it's defintively not the opinion of the average man.
I just realize that perhaps i have a different kind of complex of guilt corresponding this subject. I channel it towards taking this a bit too serious and explaining my thoughts everytime it's mentioned. (so Jung there you are :-))
next time i just go "meh, i don't care", whatever thanks for that little sokratian self-awareness and I don't want to declare victory to that argument
but let's just say everyone has their opinion and it's good to see things from a different angle and think about it in a new way