Quote from: BobK71 on April 20, 2017, 04:55:11 PM

Quote from: deisik on April 19, 2017, 01:08:52 PM

Quote from: lazyturtle on April 19, 2017, 01:05:39 PM

My personal theory is that cryptocurrency is not the bubble, but rather the needle that will burst the fiat money bubble. Trough history we have always had an easy way to attribute value to things without it. Those who believe that fiat money is the only true way often attribute their opinion to the fact that fiat money is substainsable because of its centralized nature and its history of being used as a represantation of value

Right now it is (for the most part, at least)

Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies fit well into the definition of a financial bubble. I could even claim that Bitcoin is a sort of tulipomania. Just like tulips, bitcoins are useful for some purpose, namely, for transferring value around the world while completely bypassing centralized (real controlled) entities like banks, but Bitcoin current price is by no means determined by this utility. Most of Bitcoin value today comes from sheer speculation. Whether Bitcoin bubble is going to pop eventually or its real use as a currency will finally match its use as a speculative vehicle is not clear as of yet

There's a major difference between tulips and Bitcoin. Tulips were not a very good money. Bitcoin is designed to be a money, with anonymity and security built into an electronic architecture, in addition to the usual monetary properties like durability, divisibility, etc.

Anyone can claim anything is a bubble, really. (Except for items that you can use directly and are priced only for that value -- these will never fulfill the vital role of money.) Any claim to wealth (that is transferable) must rely on the confidence of the crowd -- a network effect that says, since other people think it has value, I think it has value. When that network effect collapses, the claim's value is gone.

The main problem with state-issued money is that, while it enjoys powerful support by the state-bank alliance, all individual members of the elites have the incentives to destabilize their own money, by issuing too much money, by borrowing too much, by using deception to prop up their system temporarily, etc. -- all the history we know. So, fiat money, almost by definition, must collapse. The very strongest ones in history retain a small fraction of their purchasing power.

Yea i agree, everything without any "practical value" as food, shelter etc has a risk of becoming a bubble. People do love to speculate.

Really any value into anything without "real" value, is as you say, based upon the crowds perception of what SHOULD be the price of a particular object (paper,rocks whatever). Kind of like a mutual agreement to get the society up and running, trading resources constantly wouldn't be very practical as we know.

I dont think the fiat money is evil in itself, but people are just to prone for corruption for a fully centralized currency to really work. I personally see the confidence level for bank and government here in Sweden drop more and more and how anybody could have confidence in the USA banks/government i would never be able to understand. Kind of been declining here in Sweden (the confidence) since the USA and Island economic crises (witch really shows how stupid and corrupt government can be).

I totally agree with you in everything you say like that fiat money, in itself, will eventually fail. If bitcoin would be implemented as a easy-to-use currency everywhere, why would you even use a bank? IMO cryptocurrencies basically have most of the pros that fiat has, but not the biggest cons (like corruption).

Using state-issued money or bitcoins, in my world this choice boils down to "do i trust myself to manage my funds, or do i trust a corporation with a history littered of corruption?"

Personally i rather manage my personal wealth without a overhanging shadow seeing every financial move i make, my confidence lies in myself, not banks!