Quote from: Mbokani on May 02, 2017, 11:22:19 PM

Quote from: johnsmithx on May 02, 2017, 05:37:02 PM

Seems many people here didn't really understand what the Bitfinex BCC/BCU game is about. If you put your bitcoins there you will get the same amount of BCC plus the same amount of BCU. You can then immediately sell all those BCU for BTC, right now the price is 18%, and withdraw them. You will have to keep all your BCC there and on December 31 you will get your bitcoins back for them, 1:1. So you get all your bitcoins back plus an extra 18%. And this is regardless whether the fork will or will not happen.

So are you telling that they are using to fund their site in the event of the hack by providing another token,it is not a fair process and is there anything in the terms of service that says that if and when the exchange looses money they will compensate by providing an alternative,what ever it is i am not a fan of the exchange.

You are mixing apples and oranges. Those BCC/BCU tokens have nothing to do with any "funding" of their site or anything else. You give Bitfinex your BTC and they give you the same amount of BCC and BCU and on December 31 they will exchange your BCC back for BTC 1:1 and if there is a new currency (BTU) then they will also exchange your BCU for BTU 1:1, so there is no profit for them in all this. The fact that you can trade those BCC and BCU tokens again has nothing to do with Bitfinex because you don't trade with Bitfinex, you trade with other traders.

People here are questioning the point in trading BTU tokens because they think the fork will not happen but the BTU usability/profitability has nothing to do with fork happening or not happening, that's what I was trying to explain in my previous post. Maybe a simple example will help you understand. You give Bitfinex 10 BTC and they give you 10 BCC and 10 BCU. Right now the BCC value is around 82% of BTC, the BCU value is around 18% of BTC. So if you immediately sell those 10 BCU for BTC you will get 1.8 BTC and you can immediately withdraw it. Then on December 31 Bitfinex will give you 10 BTC back for your 10 BCC. You had 10 BTC in the beginning, you ended up with 11.8 BTC in the end, regardless of any fork, your profit is 18%, i.e. what you got for selling your BCU tokens. Or, you can take even shorter path: you have 10 BTC, you keep 1.8 BTC and with the remaining 8.2 BTC you will buy 10 BCC and again wait till the end of the year when Bitfinex gives you 10 BTC for them. How is it possible that somebody can't understand a first grade elementary school math is really beyond me.

Except the usual trading fees Bitfinex is not gaining nor losing anything by listing BCC/BCU tokens and allowing traders to trade them. If the fork happens then all pre-fork bitcoins will exist in both blockchains so for each BTC that Bitfinex held before the fork there will be 1 BTC and 1 BTU in their wallets. That's why they will be able to give you not only BTC back for your BCC but also BTU (currency) for your BCU (tokens). The only profit that you will get, i.e. 1.8 BTC in the above example, you will get from other traders who will buy your BCU or sell you their BCC, not from Bitfinex. Why would anybody give you 1.8 BTC for your 10 BCU? Because they think the fork will happen. If there is no fork then they were wrong and all their BCU will become void by December 31 and thus they lose their invested BTC, i.e. you are +1.8 BTC and they are -1.8 BTC. But if the fork does happen then on December 31 they will get the new BTU currency for their BCU tokens, which they bought for only 18%, so they will hold more than 5 times more BCU than how much they originally paid (you) in BTC, so to them this may seem like a really good risk/reward ratio deal actually. In this case your loss is the fact that you will only get 10 BTC back from Bitfinex for your original 10 BTC but you will get no BTU. If you didn't do this whole BCC/BCU deal then you would be holding 10 BTC and 10 BTU now, so those 10 missing BTU will be your loss, i.e. you are +1.8 BTC and -10 BTU and they are -1.8 BTC and +10 BTU. It's always a zero-sum game. Hope it makes finally sense.

I am not saying this is a good deal or a bad deal, that you should or shouldn't go for it, I am merely explaining what so many people here apparently didn't understand. To me 18% BTC profit in 8 months (plus possibly a 5 times bigger BTU loss) is maybe an ok deal (if I think the fork will not happen), or a very bad deal (if I think the fork will happen), but either way it's not a great deal because it's only 2.25% a month and I can definitely get more than that by lending. But if you are not lending and don't think the fork will happen and of course don't expect Bitfinex to turn into Gox v2.0 this year then this might be worth considering.