Quote from: jonald_fyookball on May 10, 2017, 07:46:43 PM

I never interpreted anything in this thread that he implied that (I actually think he tried to argue exactly what you are arguing -- that the percentages don't change based on the other pools) but I guess he can answer to that point.

He can, of course. But I took this as such an indication:

Quote from: franky1 on May 09, 2017, 03:30:32 PM

Quote from: dinofelis on May 09, 2017, 03:01:36 PM

We are in the scenario where all pools agree upon a protocol, and the full nodes want another one. Pools only care about their block being accepted by other miners

nope. because IF pools right now made blocks 465623-465723 that were, say using MD5 hashing..

by this evening.. they would find out that all the merchants wont see their rewards of 465622+
the pools would have most definetly realised that merchants wont buy their 465622 reward by at most 465623

Quote from: dinofelis on May 09, 2017, 03:25:20 PM

Stick to the case where all miners agree on a set of rules, where the full nodes don't agree with, if you want to show the power of full nodes imposing their rules on miners.

so pools wont continue making md5 hashed blocks for 16 hours because 1 pool will see a nice easy income by switching back to sha256 and win every block that is spendable to the merchants and have no competition

... and have no competition ....

together with:

Quote from: franky1 on May 09, 2017, 03:15:59 PM

Quote from: dinofelis on May 09, 2017, 02:57:41 PM

Quote from: franky1 on May 09, 2017, 02:48:11 PM

but if pools were to change the rules they would get orphaned

Quote

2017-01-29 06:59:12 Requesting block 000000000000000000cf208f521de0424677f7a87f2f278a1042f38d159565f5
2017-01-29 06:59:15 ERROR: AcceptBlock: bad-blk-length, size limits failed (code 16)

No, if SOME pools would change the rules. But we are considering the case where ALL pools fix the rules (the same ones, or the same change).

You are just printing what your local full node would tell YOU. But if all miners are in agreement on the rules (old ones or new ones) - that's the case we consider - then there's no orphaning. Because only miners can orphan blocks, by building on other blocks.

and while say pools BCDE are creating their blocks ontop of B for 16 hours.

pool A gives nodes blocks that are rule A acceptable. and pool A get to spend the funds(pool Awins every 10 minutes, zero competition)

so 16 hours earlier.. it would be like

nodes 399,999 height rule A
poolb 400,000b height rule B
poola 400,000a height rule A

nodes 400,000a
poolb 400,001b
poola 400,001a

..16 hours later
nodes 400,100a
poolb 400,101b - dang it i cant spend 400,001 and it looks like i cannot spend the other 99 blocks either. dang it i wasted half a day
poola 400,101a - woo hoo i won every block for last 100, PARTY AT MY HOUSE 1250 btc to spend Cheesy

thanks B for being a dumb & orphaning urself for 16 hours

..16 hours later
nodes 400,101a
poolb 400,102a - ok i lost 100 rewards, ill just stick with rule A from now on.. i wont be changing the rules that easily again
poola 400,102a - dang it B learned his lesson.. ok guys party only every other block, we have competition again, seems they learned their lesson

..
which is why NOW when a pool sees their bloc getting ropped by the ntwork.. they wont continue for 16 hours they realise their mistake straight away.

Quote from: dinofelis on May 09, 2017, 02:57:41 PM

(btw, strictly speaking, an invalid block is not orphaned but rejected: the definition of orphaning is a VALID block that is not built upon ; by definition, blocks in the chain are valid).

by the way strictly speaking an orphan was 'suppose' to be used in terms of, when a CHILD (newest addition) gets rejected purely because the parent(previous block) disappears..

but reality is a new block can be an orphan if the parent still exists but just gives up its child..

check the definition
An orphan is a child whose parents are dead or have permanently abandoned the child.

most pretend that "orphans" = parents are dead.. but the reality of human orphanages/foster care system is that children do not have to have dead parents to be classed as orphans.

where he says:
(pool Awins every 10 minutes, zero competition)

and where indeed, he puts as many blocks (100) by pool A as by the 4 other pools.