Quote from: freeyourmind on May 23, 2017, 01:47:27 AM

Quote from: Okurkabinladin on May 22, 2017, 10:57:18 PM

Quote from: freeyourmind on May 22, 2017, 07:19:32 PM

Quote from: Dwayne_Bamage on May 22, 2017, 09:56:41 AM

Quote from: freeyourmind on May 22, 2017, 05:59:45 AM

A couple years ago, I heard that the cost of eliminating world hunger was $30 billion a year. US "defense" spending is at $700 billion currently I believe. And lol @ using the word defense, when it none of it takes place on US soil...everything is initiating offence on foreign soil.

Not sure how many people aren't getting adequate food and water, but one year without making guns, bombs, tanks and fighter jets...would give approximately 23 years of food and clean water...and probably a sustainable infrastructure that could provide it for even longer (water filtration + farming infrastructure). But who needs that when you have the mother of all bombs?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammed_bin_Awad_bin_Laden
This man fathered a total of 56 children by 22 wives. Who's going to feed all those beautiful babies?

What if you were one of those babies?

Possibly the same resources that are being invested into building a bomb? I'm not going to defend that man in anyway though...and maybe the point is many would take advantage of the handouts given...which I agree with.

But with technological advancement, at the end of the day...machines or robots will be doing more and more work which will replace human labour and income. The world will have to go in a socialist direction because of this anyways, or you will have to deal with a massive population that cannot support themselves, which will make the aggregate standard of living lower. How happy will you be as a wealthy person getting into your ferrari when there are 10 people starving outside your front door?

You make a valid point with ever increasing population being essentially fed by ever decreasing group of people.

However, keep in mind, that the actual work is not done by robots. But by those behind them. Capital holders (owners), technicians, engineers etc... robots are merely muscles.

If you insists on the notion - very noble notion, that this small group is obliged to feed the inactive rest, how are you going to compensate those pillars of humanity? Lets cut the BS and talk actual bussiness. What will the rest of humanity gives in return for being caretaken by minority of dedicated specialists and share holders slaving away for its welfare?

You cant offer them immortal salvation, only faith in God can do that. So what then?

Interesting.

There is a human component to build the robot and program it to function in a certain way. But the human component is decreasing. You already have robots that make robots, programmed by human. But AI will likely be here this century, which would mean there doesn't need to be any human input at all. You don't need to pay robots, they don't need breaks or holidays...so they generate value that can either go to the owners (like in our current economic system), or to be for the benefit of civilization, or a combination of both.

I don't insist on that notion of obligation, but I feel like humanity will likely move in that direction. The old and present model of being paid money for hours of human labour...I feel will need to change with automation. Think of taxi drivers and alternative paid transportation like uber...imagine how it will be affected by driverless cars with autopilot and gps. There are many other industries that will get affected similarly and those jobs will go away over time. It's even in the best interest of rich people, to have a middle class. If it's only super rich and poor, then it can become unsafe for a rich person.

Look at Elon Musk for example...he is voluntarily trying to make a positive impact on the environment through sustainable energy (solar), battery storage and electric cars. I think there will be more people that take that model of work, where they are super smart, understand how to acquire huge resources, and the use those resources to innovate technology that will help humanity as a whole, even though it is for profit...the impact is positive.

But in terms of what will humanity do in return for having their basic needs provided...I'm not sure. Society would be very different if the extreme struggle associated with fulfilling basic needs was completely removed. I think people would be two ways to go. The lazy people can just chill, and be content. And others would follow their passions, which may result in some type of mastery and contribution back to society. Personally, if that was the way society was at the moment, and my basic needs were taken care of, I would follow my passions and dedicate myself to get as good as I could possibly get. And maybe if I get good enough, I can produce a good or service that people would enjoy. Actually sounds like a communist approach...but a very technologically advanced execution lol.

You make great comparison with communism - Ive lived through it.

You know where that lead to? Very, very small group of people (politbyro, but you can call them papacy aswell), who knew each other held responsibility for redistribution of wealth (social justice, but could be called salvation) in the name of the state (god). It is called democratic centralism and is still practiced by Peoples republic of China.

These men were very close to historical definition of demi gods. Tasked to administer collective means of production and development, since private property was not really an option. At different time periods taking or protecting lives seemingly at whim.

Democracy, that westerners taky for granted is quite fragile thing, tied intimately to the relationship between means of production and its owners. Take common men out of this equation and their role in the political system will diminish aswell. You are right, you would be probadly well fed and clothed in such system (as it will be obligation of upper class in such social contract), however ultimately you would lead a life of pet in a nice cage.

I am not forcing this view on you, just sharing my experience and perhaps hoping it will make you think.