Quote from: Hawker on April 24, 2013, 12:12:34 PM

The correct way to look at it...

Ahem...

Quote from: Hawker on April 24, 2013, 12:12:34 PM

The correct way to look at it is that wealth and income are created by the state providing a safe legal and social environment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=NbNFJK1ZpVg

Yes. I understand how mashups create social hysteria, chaos, bedlam, dogs sleeping with cats...

But seriously? Safe?

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bad_Cop_No_Donut/

Because the law and police to such a great job of keeping people safe...

http://www.theburningplatform.com/?p=46843

Chicago. Enough said.

Quote from: Hawker on April 24, 2013, 12:12:34 PM

In countries like the US with well run systems, the wealth created is huge.

Yes. Just look at some of the greatest cities in the US, e.g. Detroit:

http://www.activistpost.com/2013/03/detroit-symbolizes-americas-decline.html

http://www.activistpost.com/2013/02/24-facts-about-city-of-detroit-that.html

Because there's so much wealth, that houses only cost $200 now!

Quote from: Hawker on April 24, 2013, 12:12:34 PM

The recipients of this largesse pay some of it in taxes.

Absolutely. Just like the megacorps like General Electric:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/11/general-electric-taxes_n_2852094.html

http://www.factcheck.org/2012/04/warren-ge-pays-no-taxes/

Ooops... Nope. They didn't pay tax. They got a $3.2 billion tax refund.

(Countless more examples like GE. Look them up if you like.)

Quote from: Hawker on April 24, 2013, 12:12:34 PM

Take away the taxes and you take away the safe legal and social environment and US incomes fall to the levels of Somalia.

Or Chicago, or Detroit, or...

Quote from: Hawker on April 24, 2013, 12:12:34 PM

Its perfectly moral to insist that those who are lucky enough to profit from living in a well run state make a contribution to the running costs of that state.

"Moral?"

I do not think it means what you think it means.

( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2y8Sx4B2Sk for fun!

)

Read a bit of Kant if you want to understand "moral", because it sure doesn't sound like you're using that word right.

http://kantphilosophy.wordpress.com/kants-ethics/the-good-will/

You are flat out advocating violence and theft. Unless by "insist" you mean call people nasty names if they don't cough up.

Nobody is born with an obligation to any state or anyone. Just in case you are unaware, there is a word for being born with obligations... it's called "slavery".

Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. ~ Thomas Jefferson

You don't have to be moral or good. There is no requirement there. The only thing people need to do is follow that little pearl of wisdom so nicely stated by TJ there.