Quote from: Lankster on June 08, 2017, 10:47:45 PM

Quote from: Alfred Hard on June 08, 2017, 10:39:27 PM

Quote from: 2econd on June 08, 2017, 10:02:10 PM

Quote from: Alfred Hard on June 08, 2017, 09:05:48 PM

What do you think of this?:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ethtrader/comments/6fmj9w/bancor_ico_analysis_scam/

Bancor looks very promising, but all the talk about the ICO being risky because of the unlimited/hidden cap could make that a lot of people don't want to risk their money investing on this. Like Mulder, I want to believe, but I really don't know what to think about it, I see people saying this will be a great opportunity and a lot of people warning about it being too risky, I wouldn't like to invest money on this ICO and then find out that next day the coins (or tokens or whatever they are called) have lost half of their value. Huh

What is risky? Want all to end up in the hands of 50 people, again?
I'm glad Bancor tries to keep cryptocurrency in line, decentralized and for the little guy too

Well, risky could be investing, idk, like 5k euros and that the next day the value of the investment is 2k/3k or less because the coin value is much lower (I guess that's how it works, correct me if I'm wrong).

I agree that it's great that everybody can potentially participate on this, and if after the ICO the coin price is stable and with time goes up because the project is really good, then that would be fantastic, but I keep reading that for some reason I really don't fully understand if there is no cap and everybody can buy for 60 minutes that could mean that the coin value will be much lower after the ICO and that could mean that most investors (including the little guy) would lose money. And if it was just some money, meaning a 5%-10%, then, well, it's an acceptable risk and maybe with time the coin value goes up and this could be a good investment, but if half of the value is lost in a day (or a week, idk), then obviously a lot of people could be mad for having invested so soon when they could have waited and get many more coins for the same money they used to invest before.

I really have no idea if the coin value will be lower after the ICO, I'm just commenting what I've read somewhere else (youtube, reddit, other message boards), if you or anyone else know some reason why people talking about this potential price drop after the ICO are wrong, then I'll be glad to read what you have to say. I'm really interested on this, it looks like it has potential, but I'm just concerned about what other people are commenting. I have ZERO experience with ICOs and cryptocurrency in general, I'm just trying to learn about it these days because I find all of this very interesting, but I obviously have no idea about what is going to happen with Bancor or with any other altcoin.

Maybe I'm missing something in their protocol. But there's no difference between people buying more tokens and a price drop post ICO. If anything, people buying more tokens means less available which means price goes up..

I mean the only logical explanation for that is if everybody buys ICO, who's going to buy after to keep the price risinf? But to stipulate that it's going to drop 50% is prettt darn stupid if you ask me

Well, here is some of the messages I've read in this same thread:

Quote from: 86B on June 06, 2017, 08:03:09 AM

Here's what I see:

Cap it too low and the whales feast.

No cap and the lemmings suffer (this will run well beyond its proper value due to the hype).

Spend time to cap it accurately and the whales and lemmings both get a piece of the pie without blowing past overvaluation.

Running 1 hour uncapped is a phenomenal move for Bancor, manageable for the whales, but BAD for the lemmings. Whales aren't affected as much because they will hold volume nonetheless, but the real punch to the face here is going to be handed to the lemmings because they will need to chase higher yields in an already inflated market cap starting day 1. Yeah there's the long-term investment mindset, but if the uncapped ICO goes nuts I don't see the point investing in something that will be its 5 year future value on day 1.

One thing is for certain and that's Bancor is about to get PAID.

Quote from: buyethereumio on June 05, 2017, 07:06:08 PM

RIP Bancor ICO

Quote from: Bancorholder on June 06, 2017, 04:15:11 AM

What I don't understand well is the price value of BNT when post ICO.

Right now, 1 BNT looks like it will be around $2.50 USD possibly closet to 3.00USD if ETH keep going up.

The part I don't understand is that if market cap reaches 500 million at ICO, hypothetically, then this will devalue my BNT? So 1 BNT could be worth a lot less than 2.50 USD after ICO due to more investors pumping more money? Someone explain this to me.

Quote from: Bought1.5MilXVG@60sat on June 05, 2017, 09:41:41 PM

If they do it this way, it doesn't evenm atter if they raise 100 or 200 or 500 million.
The name Bancor will be tarnished before it even starts.
With such a high profile project, you have to know beforehand what you need to realize your product. Don't collect as much cash as possible, from with 20% or whatever goes to the devs and founders etc. And then the "hidden" cap...
They take a large part of the reward away from the investors, heavily increase their risk, and give themselves heaps of spare cash for lamborghinis.
Sometimes you have to be "hard" and set a cap, or find some other way. But the team saying "we take as much money as possible" instead of "we need 30 mil for x, 50 mil for x+y" is simply unprofessional.

If they don't provide a different solution, capped in one way or the other, I will sadly have to ask nicolai to return my funds.
Oh right, I was told there'd be a cap and paid a fee to secure a spot ... Roll Eyes

Quote from: ludbega on June 05, 2017, 09:35:34 PM

Could be very important. Nobody wants to have bad reputation with that system. We need a max cap.

Indeed the project is wonderful but nobody wants this situation... one hour...

We need a vote !

Quote from: frg7alien on June 05, 2017, 08:43:42 PM

WOW, I invested my money, paid $100 to bitcoin suisse, they told me there is a hard cap

Then last minute: Actually we have uncapped 1hour sale, and then a "secret" hard limit

Is this some joke, why do you think you can scam the public like this ? Why is the marketcap being forced to well over 100M for a coin that hasn't done anything yet ?

Why did I pay bitcoin suisse fee if you have an uncapped sale ?

Scam coin, greedy devs trying to milk absolutely everything they can. Even though they hoarding 50% of all Bancor tokens it's not enough

Quote from: idontcare on June 05, 2017, 08:28:09 PM

It's a scam, stay away!!!! They have announced a price of 100 bancor / 1 eth ($2.47 @current rate) AND NO CAP. Apparently they have a "hidden" cap that they will stop at, letting us know when 80% is hit, but not displaying how much they have raised. This isn't an ICO it's a get rich fast scam by the bancor team. Galia said she doesn't want investors to make money and doesnt' want volatility.. Disgusting attitude and a huge let down. The investors will be lucky to get 50% of their investment back when it hits the markets. This isn't what an ICO is meant to be, as in a win-win scenario where the investors get ROI and the projects gets funding.

I was removed from the telegram group after Galia couldn't respond to my questions. This whole thing is set up so investors don't make any money and the bancor team are happy with it. Galia said it herself.

I see that on slack Eyal pasted a more refined version of the crap:

"1. The most critical thing for us is to make sure that those who took the time to research and understand Bancor prior to the fundraiser will be able to participate. This is the reason behind the 1h minimum time.

2. This is not a fundraiser for quick-flip investors wanting to get in and make a quick profit. That is not the goal of the protocol, the foundation, the team, the product or the project.

3. A large fundraiser will mean a large reserve (more liquidity, less volatility) and more resources to make Bancor a success, which we have detailed plans to implement. More bounties, more community grants, more explanatory events, etc. We believe this is in the best interest of the contributors and the project, and we are the right team to execute this vision. For those looking to hold their tokens, which are the kind of contributors we are optimizing for, this seems to us the best configuration and we are doing careful planning for the spectrum of outcomes.

4. Re Bitcoin suisse, we created this option for those who wanted additional assistance or additional currencies with which to fund. As the terms structure was being delayed, we heard from many that they wanted to contribute no matter what, and were eager for an option to come online. There is no advantage to Bancor of having these funds come in early as they are held in escrow. There are no discounts or other contingencies. There was a preset amount allocated to this option which may or may not be filled, and has no material impact on the fundraiser nor its cap. Its unfortunate to hear that some are frustrated with this option, as we truly set it up to be a helpful mechanism for those who wanted it, and to calm concerns about not getting in before we were able to share our minimum hour mechanism. This was also intended for those who knew they couldnt be available later in the month regardless of a cap or no cap. That all said, If anyone feels slighted by the unfolding of events and would like to withdraw their ETH from bitcoin suisse, we have decided to cover the fee penalties ourselves.

5. Re Protocol in this group, we welcome all opinions. However, we insist on healthy and respectful dialogue, and will not tolerate unproductive behavior. Bancor is clearly not a scam. We can agree to disagree on points, and we can be convinced of points weve overlooked, but wed like to keep the discussion here constructive and not further feed the frenzy engine that has plagued so many projects before us, and prevents both us and you from getting value from this forum. We will be banning users who do not adhere to this protocol, and again we welcome respectful dialogue on all points."

Now, let's analyse their bullshit.

1. EVERYONE is able to participate and has been able to participate for over a week via bitcoinsuisee.ch/bancor where people can pay in CFH, GBP, EUR, USD, DKK, SDG, Ether or Bitcoins, meaning the 1 hour un-limited cap is COMPLETE BS!

2. So this isn't a fund raiser the INVESTORS, the people who believe in you and want to help you secure funds so that you can get it off the ground and turn it into a viable project. The truth is this is purely for the greedy bancor team to get rich.

3. They believe that it is in the investors interest to have an UNCAPPED ICO, or as they put it with a "hidden cap" (LOLOLOLOLOLLOL), so that they don't make a ROI or maybe even their money back.

4. Here they are making out that investors are angry that we have bitsuisse as an option, this is BS, nobody said that. We are also told that the funds raised via bitsuisse, " has no material impact on the fundraiser nor its cap" - WTF? So regardless of how much is raised, it doesn't affect the cap? Off course it doesn't - because you don't have a cap, you will see how it goes and when the investments start slowing down you will say that you've reached 80% of your imaginary cap. IN A REGULATED MARKED THIS WOULD BE ILLEGAL.

5. If you question them or state that you are not happy with this shambles of an ICO scam they will eject you, what can I say.. disagree and you're out.. very classy.

Instead of using the ICO to raise funds to support the project, they are using it to get rich quick.

Quote from: Bancorholder on June 06, 2017, 04:24:19 PM

If bancor is reading this: Just make it no cap for 15 minutes. Otherwise many will pull out.

Quote from: TheMilkman on June 06, 2017, 03:49:36 PM

Even Aragon decided to work with Bancor's main competitor (0x) instead of Bancor.

https://blog.aragon.one/aragon-partners-with-0x-3c8d0c9dcd84

Devs, change the ICO terms. It seems that only partnerships Bancor will be having is with those that were given free Bancor tokens.

Quote from: Qiuyue201 on June 05, 2017, 04:56:08 PM

Regarding ICO terms

What? Is this a joke?

Basically, we are getting an ICO that is not capped (technically during the first hour people can send 200 million or 300 million or 500 million USD which they will probably do, and the ICO will continue regardless). Aragon ICO collected 25 million in one minute, BAT even more, so Bancor can collect 900 million without a problem, good for developers and bounty hunters, not so good for investors.

Also initial CRR only 10%? With that amount collected (or any amount collected) you could definitely pick better CRR. Unless you are afraid that people will start dumping immediately. (Remember, that you can give your Bancor token back but for lower price if everyone starts selling and exchage is not required for that).

Also, why are you collecting only ETH? You should collect other ERC20 tokens too. What about collecting Wings tokens, you have partnership with them? And what about Aragon, which is one of the biggest crypto projects? Or any other ERC20 tokens? You are aiming to have token changers without those tokens?

Seriously, this is greed at it's finest. I really liked the project and now I am not cool with those terms. Change your mind and alter those terms:

- create hard cap at 100 million or lower
- accept other tokens (perhaps 10 million USD in various tokens that will sum up to 100 million)
- change the CRR

I think that most of us were expecting capping it high, at 100 million or even higher, but time capping the ICO is same as not capping it at all.

Quote from: TheMilkman on June 05, 2017, 04:58:18 PM

I have to agree. It's like accepting all the ETH that is sent your way. It is cool to get in but if everyone is getting in and there is no limit, the coin will not give investors profits.

Quote from: Qiuyue201 on June 05, 2017, 05:39:21 PM

Quote from: bitcircle on June 05, 2017, 05:33:52 PM

When this secret will be revealed about that unspecific hard cap what is limit there if all coins sold out during 1st hours than we will able to know about that how many tokens will be created during sale round?

It is irrelevant beacuse everyone will send their money during the first hour and all that money will be accepted. This is why this ICO is badly constructed. It's like having uncapped ICO. They should add hard cap limit of 100 million or lower. Otherwise the contract can accept 100 million, 200 million, 300 million or any amount sent. This way one whale can buy huge percentage of coins, which is exactly opposite that we would like. The coin will be dominated by huge players.

Quote from: Bought1.5MilXVG@60sat on June 05, 2017, 06:17:49 PM

Not a fan of this uncapped ICO either...
...then again, maybe many people will stay passive and not send their ETH until just before the 1 hour limit to see if/when the cap gets revealed?

I am definitely mad that I paid the Bitcoin Suisse Fees for nothing Angry

Quote from: jayohby on June 05, 2017, 06:40:18 PM

guys.. uncapped ICO?

come on..

not gonna send my ETH For that... but gonna get my bounties tho~

Quote from: Bancorholder on June 06, 2017, 03:51:02 PM

I emailed Bitcoin Suisse to refund me all my ETH. I'm sure bancor can foot the bill for this.

Quote from: FandangledGizmo on June 07, 2017, 12:29:55 AM

No Cap or 'Secret Cap', I laughed a lot.

Quote from: topesis on June 08, 2017, 05:03:59 AM

This is going to be over sold and a long term investment in my opinion and could dump when listed on the exchange because the price seems to be quite high around $2 per tokens.

Quote from: lokojones on June 08, 2017, 02:13:41 PM

I don't think Bancor is a good deal - 2.6$ per coin for ICO only with white paper? what if they screw up or delay project? DUMP, same happened to lisk and waves
both ended up under ICO price.

Tonnes of n00bs here, read weak hands - plenty of them will exit under solid pressure when shit hit the fan:)

I will wait... exactly the same happened to golem and I got them for 30% below ICO

Secondly ETH is in parabolic mode, so most likely you will loose money from day 1 anyway and no cap mean lots of whales ready to dump on you
when they realize they don't hold majority of coins and are not able to control the market - they will be force to short.

What you think?

Quote from: sud on June 06, 2017, 10:38:33 AM

I was waiting for this ICO with excitement, but know have mixed feelings. 2.5$ for a token is pretty high and in 1 hour millions ETH could be transferred.

I have to rethink if I should participate in ICO.

Quote from: TheRedDevil on June 05, 2017, 07:21:01 PM

Looking forward to the ICO very much. That minimum 1 hour time period is really tricky..

Quote from: MoveCrypto on June 09, 2017, 01:53:49 AM

Quote from: favila on June 09, 2017, 01:47:43 AM

Quote from: seek4dream on June 09, 2017, 12:17:48 AM

Quote from: ruletheworld on June 08, 2017, 11:13:46 PM

Quote from: Weider on June 08, 2017, 11:00:31 PM

Some news from there official blog. You should check this out!

https://blog.bancor.network/the-community-of-the-currency-9770087fde17

"Weve heard many concerns that having no cap in the first hour (other than the 1M Ether security cap) may result in BNT dropping below its initial price after the token allocation event. Even though wed like to think that our hodlers will not be quick to liquidate BNT theyve purchased at its initial price, we have decided to allocate any proceeds collected in the minimum hour which exceed the hidden cap as follows:

20% will be allocated to the BNT Ether Reserve, to further improve the liquidity of BNT, which increases stability while reducing conversion costs (price slippage) for all.

80% will be locked for two years in a smart contract that will buy back BNT for 0.01 ETH (the initial price) whenever it is available, according to its calculated price. The purchased BNT will be added to the Foundations long-term budget, and after a 2-year period, any remaining ETH will be allocated pro-rata according to the Use of Proceeds chart in our Token Creation Terms."

That is definitely interesting, and should ease some of the concerns around a mad rush for the ICO.

It seems there will be no way the price will drop below ICO price.
That way it is more likely the ICO will be finished in an hour.

Interesting so it basically makes this a virtually risk free ICO. Thats bound to create a lot of pumping once the ICO is over. I wonder if they could also be the first ICO to generate over a hundred million dollars.

It would still be possible for the price to drop below 0.01 ETH.

For example, let's say the hidden cap is 250k ETH, and it raises 300k ETH in the first hour.

That's +50k ETH above the hidden cap. (50k ETH)*0.80 = 40k ETH would go into a buyback pool.

The buyback pool would be big enough to absorb 400k BNT. After that, the pool would be empty and price could drop below 0.01 ETH

After reading those kind of messages, well, I think it's normal to have doubts about investing on this ICO. I would like to trust this ICO, but I see too many people talking about a potential post-ICO price drop, that's why I'm asking about it, to read what potential investors think.