Quote from: deisik on June 12, 2017, 10:35:36 AM

Quote from: franky1 on June 12, 2017, 10:15:05 AM

thats 9 onchain tx's required for 4 parties to use LN........... (which requires ONCHAIN blockspace.. and costs ONCHAIN FEE'S)
yes while ln channels are active those 4 parties can do lots and lots of LN payments between each other.

but that does not mean that suddenly any new people (E) dont need a channel or more to be part of LN.

Does it mean that if I want to transact in an LN network, I can open just one payment channels with someone and then make any number of transactions with anyone who is potentially reachable in this network completely bypassing the blockchain? If so, that pretty proves that LN solves the issues that Bitcoin now has

This is basically what the LN portal claims

IF that other person has multiple channels yes.. other wise there is no 'route'.
but remember to set up and close a channel IS requiring onchain transactions

if its just A<>B
they all a and b can do is private trades to each other.. no one else....
as i shown in examples of other post, B would need to be more of a minihub, involving also connecting to C.. for a route to be possible for A to be able to pay C

this is also where the (hop/spoke/route) falls apart as it will cost people a payment fee per (hop spoke/route) to thank them for being part of the (hop/spoke/route)

what ends up happening is B may decide to be a bigger hub
A<>B
C<>B
D<>B
now A can pay D by only paying 1 hop fee to B
EG
A(0.0499)<>B(0.1501)
B(0.5)<>D(0.15)

then new users just contract/channel to B
E<>B
F<>B
and now A can pay E just via B, and only costing the 1 hop fee via B to get to E

last thing to add
in a hop method.. the average 'cost' is ~ 2-3 onchain transactions
A= 1 in and half of 1 out (1.5)
B= 2 in and 2halves out (3)
C= 2 in and 2halves out (3)
D= 1 in and half of 1 out (1.5)

in a hub of a,b,c,d method
A= 1 in and half of 1 out (1.5)
B= 3 in an 3halves out (4.5)
C= 1 in and half of 1 out (1.5)
D= 1 in and half of 1 out (1.5)

so imagining a onchain fee was still ~$2 (a=$3

so lets imagine A wanted or wished that on average their fee's only cost (on average) $0.02
even if each hop was $0.01.. even doing 300 LN payments.. A's average would be $0.02
by including the setup and settlemnt cost

if A only done lets say 10 LN payments.. A's average would be $0.34
by including the setup and settlemnt cost