Quote from: wacko on June 18, 2017, 02:02:48 PM

Quote from: bensam1231 on June 18, 2017, 06:28:41 AM

Look into small warehouses in cheap parts of town. Your solution of 'filling rental units' with miners is completely asinine and not something most people will encounter. Right along the same lines, here's a better idea which is still stupid, rent a house with a 200 amp service. Most newer houses (80s forward) will have a 200 amp service. Once again it doesn't really matter as power usage is very similar and your scenario applies to both AMD and Nvidia.

Are you from the United States by any chance? Cheesy

It's just Americans for some reason often speak like there's only US on the map of the world and nothing else exists out there, so they assume a shitload of stuff about life (sometimes applicable to their country only) and push their opinions based on those assumptions. I live in the opposite part of the world, and not only electricity costs are different here, the renting situation is also very different: there are no "80s forward houses" anywhere around, 99% of people here live in apartments of high-rise buildings. Renting warehouses is a lot more complicated and expensive here than renting apartments, it's just the way that market and legal system are in my country (electricity rates are multiple times higher for warehouses, internet connections also are, there's no affordable insurance for those locations and list goes on and on).

And why should the 'average' be based around outliers? If you're having issues and need a highly complex and completely outside of the norm solution why would you ever reply to people discussing what the average is going to be exhibiting?

Good for you, you have a couple rigs and because of where you live in addition to the circumstances you're under it's never going to amount to much because you're limited by them. That in no way, shape, or form should influence what I'm talking about as the majority of miners will not be operating under the same circumstance. In other words your response wasn't even worth replying to because now you're pointing out that you're a outlier and really no one will ever experience the same issues (which is funny because you were pointing out that a lot of people are renting extra rentals...). Even if you live in euro you can still rent warehouses, those don't magically disappear outside of the US. Matter of a fact, if you live in a underdeveloped country the chances of you finding cheap warehouses that are derelict and can be 'reactivated' is extremely high. In other words you have a better chance of figuring that out.

It's like when I was arguing with someone who was trying to push his $.4KWH energy usage as 'common'. That's silly.

You definitely have a weird system if warehouse energy (industrial) use is higher then commercial or residential. I almost want to say you live in Brazil will energy is essentially free for normal citizens (but of course you can get arrested for over using it).

The funny thing about this, is even when presenting this scenario, once again you're losing a massive amount of profit for no gain. There is no efficiency gain by mining eth over eth+sia and a 580 and 1070 use about the same amount of power. So what you're describing doesn't even matter, we already covered this. You just don't understand how things are weighted when it comes to cryptos and are stuck on the 'nvidia is always more efficiency and a $400 GPU can't be worth as much as a $200 one'.

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Quote from: bensam1231 on June 18, 2017, 06:28:41 AM

And no, they aren't 'a lot hotter and louder'. That's written by someone who has no experience with dual mining, you're basing it off what you read in claymores thread, by other retards who are also regurgitating what they heard without actually taking time to test it themselves.

How do you even make this shit up? I mean, how do you assume things about people you know nothing about? I've got ~ 40% AMD cards and ~ 60% nvidia at the moment, and out of AMDs ~90% are Polaris and ~10% are Fiji. Yes, Polaris cards ARE A LOT HOTTER AND LOUDER in dual mining, and I haven't even read the claymore's thread yet I'm basing it on my own experience. I run all my RX470/480 cards at 0.9V voltage, and ~1140-1200 MHz core, they're all rock solid stable at those settings in ETH only (and most other algos like equihash etc). Reducing the voltage further for most of the cards I've got requires significant downclocking as well, so it's not worth it (maybe ok for ETH, which relies on memory more, but I also mine other algos with AMD cards sometimes, and managing different overclocks for different algos is too much hassle for too little profit). On average at this voltage each rx 480 consumes about 130W from the wall in ETH only. My target temp is 60 Celsius and most cards are either quiet (like Nitros, spinning only at ~ 1500 rpm) or moderately noisy (like Gigabyte G1 cards, XFX, Strix etc). It's all very different in dual mining: the consumption from each card goes up to ~ 170-180W, and not only they become hot and noisy (no chance to stay under 60 Celsius anymore, most cards will run their fans at 100% now), some of them aren't even stable at 0.9V in dual mining. So I either have to increase the voltage, making them consume even more than they already do, or reduce the clocks. I did spend quite some time trying to find a balance with dual mining, and it's just not there for me. Yes, I could be making an extra ~$1 from a card, but I don't want it like this, it's just too much power spent I'm making more money from running more cards in less power hungry mining modes (like ETH only for Polaris cards). Again, I am power limited (and most miners around the world are), and within those power limits it's more profitable right now to run more cards in less demanding modes than to run less cards in dual mining.

And 480/580 vs 1070 is not even really a choice here, cause there's absolutely no AMD cards available anywhere close to me. All the European online stores that I can order from like ComputerUniverse etc are also out of stock. Sometimes 580s pop up in local stores, but usually for ~ $500-600. I'd rather buy a GTX 1080 for that price. Or even a GTX 1070, which I still find a better card than 480/580. Right now, with the current ETH prices, It's earning a bit more than single 480/580 in ETH only, and a bit less if you compare it to Polaris in dual mining. But for the past year or so, most of the time 1070 was a better earner with Zec/Lbry/Skein/etc. AMD were only really good with ETH, and who knows what's gonna happen with ETH profitability in the next months? It can easily go down to the previous levels, like it was 3 or 6 months ago, and 1070 will then again have an advantage. It is a faster card in general, no matter what you say about it just based on its "core count | core clock | ipc" ratio. That's why it's faster in games, and faster in most mining algos that don't rely heavily on gpu memory (like ETH does). I understand how Polaris is now a little bit more profitable in dual mining, but saying "Nvidia is absolutely a terrible choice" when comparing 580 to 1070 at the current prices? Seriously? Cheesy

Sounds like you need a chill pill, a temporary extra $1 profit from 480/580 dual mining doesn't suddenly make 1070 a "terrible choice". Not even close, you're overreacting over such a trivial difference.

They aren't. You're putting your hand over the top of them and go 'oh more heat is coming out of them'. How about talking some watts, with a wall meter, instead of your hand or looking at the core voltage and reported energy 'use'. You're going to use about 40-50 more watts of energy to dual mine. Of course that seems like a 'huge' increase in heat because it's a 30% increase in energy. However at $.1KWH which I described earlier that's an additional $.12 per day to run those GPUs and it nets you an additional $1.3 per day. You're losing $1.18 per day by not dual mining. A 1070 will use less energy while dual mining (it also makes less) as it doesn't have the assembly changes yet, however you're still netting an additional $.6 including power.

Lol, even with the numbers you described, it's still more profitable mining in eth+sia by a long shot.

If you're talking about AMD shortage, I mentioned that earlier before we even started with this. That's not a point. I never said purchasing a 580 for $600. I said a 580 is worth more then a 1070. If we compare that to market prices it's worth more then $400 cost to buy a 1070.

AMD is not only good at ETH, that's why you buy a 580 instead of old R9-290s or something, also why you dual mine with them instead of buying old hardware that can only mine Eth.

You know what's more likely to drop in price? Niche markets. IE coins that don't have a lot of volume and buy protection. You have very little understanding of how cryptos work. It takes a lot less to crash a small market (and manipulate it) then it does a large market. If you talk about something like Zcash and look at volume, it will take a lot less and be more likely for Zcash to crash then Ethereum, just like it's more likely Ethereum will crash then Bitcoin. I mentioned this earlier and it's one of the points I've iterated numerous times. AMD mining is on strong mainstream coins where as Nvidia is on either coins that don't earn much at all (Zcash is earning $5.88 in revenue right now) or coins that can very easily lose all their value or become over saturated.

A 1070 isn't faster in mining most algos compared to a 580, it depends on the software that's being used (AMD also has a lot more support there) and how the architecture reacts to it, once again you were using your assumption that because the card is faster at gaming and is priced accordingly it will be in the rest of the crypto scene, that's not the way it works. When you have Wolf and Claymore floating around a lot of algos get worked pretty hard for AMD, matter of a fact that's one of the complaints I've had about Nvidia over the years that I've posted in this very same thread. If your assumption were right Equihash would be earning a pittance on AMD hardware compared to Nvidia, but it's not. It's just not mined by AMD because you can earn a lot more mining eth or eth+sia/dcr/pasc.

'Temporary' is a very ambiguous term. A 580 has been earning more then a 1070 for the last four months. Back in January they were earning the same and at the time you could purchase them for $200 a pop. I guess if half a year is 'temporary' then, it is and it can be if we start looking at decades and millennia. I'm sure that'll help everyone.