Quote from: generalizethis on June 19, 2017, 11:26:47 AM

Quote from: smooth on June 19, 2017, 10:58:56 AM

Quote from: generalizethis on June 19, 2017, 10:45:07 AM

Quote from: smooth on June 19, 2017, 10:00:59 AM

Quote from: generalizethis on June 19, 2017, 08:25:49 AM

Oddly, the title is misleading as it lumps risto's debt in with the game--a game risto has been kicked out of for scamming people.

The game is also at fault, for failing to control its own books and accounts, and also failing to do anything to make players whole once the founder and largest stakeholder of the game manipulated the integrity of the game and ripped people off.

The best thing for anyone who hasn't already been ripped off to do is stay away until people are made whole and the structural problems are resolved (for example by putting the assets on a blockchain where they can't be arbitrarily manipulated).

If MtGox reopened tomorrow with Kerpelles 'kicked out' but the whole rest of the crew still there, would you deposit money? I know I would not.

And no, I have no interest in buying in on the cheap (I wouldn't have to buy 'back' in either, as I already have a huge collection of in-game assets).

Fix this problem for real, and maybe the game has a chance. Otherwise, its all one dirty and dangerous pile of shit and people should not deposit money.

The game is at fault for Risto's actions?

I'm not assigning fault, I'm saying it is an unsound system which enabled this scam and has done nothing to resolve the fact that people deposited into the game and were not able to withdraw from it (the proximate cause for that being rpietilla's manipulation of the game records, but the underlying cause being poor controls) other than "SFYL, game goes on!"

I'd add to that another separate incident where the database was lost, due to developer error, there were no usable recent backups, and people faced potential large trading losses from a rollback until one of the players thankfully volunteered to help the developer do what he wasn't able to do himself (recover it).

If you are inviting people to put money into that, then yes you are complicit in scamming. Play all you like, but don't invite people to deposit money into such a system before you get your house in order.

Quote

I never heard you once complain about CK's design

Excuse me? I have been saying for years that at least the monetary assets (whether houses and such should be on a blockchain is a different question) should be on a blockchain (and also repeatedly stated that the blockchain version of the token should not be disadvantaged relative to the in-game token, for example by not receiving dividends, so that people are not discouraged from more-safely holding the blockchain version). I was the one who originally did the research into the capabilities and suitability of various asset platforms and suggested counterparty last year when luigi created the original token.

Quote

How would you fix it? You want to pay Risto's bill?

Aside from structural reforms, you could start by seizing and selling all of his in-game assets with the proceeds used to (likely partially) repay the players who were ripped off when it turned into a fractional reserve scam. Has that yet been done?

Assets were seized yesterday, accounts were locked weeks ago, and yes, PJ is a hack DEV--but risto paid him upfront and he's all we have atm until we can get a blockchain asset and fund it ourselves. So unless you have a way to expedite these matters, like creating a blockchain asset with your skillset, you are just repeating what we already know. Though if you are suggesting tying the game's currency to a blockchain asset, you would be damning the game--we were lucky that saddam was never hacked when M was pegged to XMR--risto's actions actually highlight this risk, rather than point to it as a solution. [Note: I am distinguishing between asset and currency]

Also, no one is asking anyone to deposit anything into the game atm--but meanwhile, risto is creating another game--so feel free to protect those people.

Risto is creating another spreadsheet game? I could never understand how so many people participated in that in the first place, it seemed so silly but thats just me.