Quote from: crazyates on April 30, 2013, 10:41:33 PM

Quote from: Rampion on April 30, 2013, 10:28:52 PM

Quote from: bitsalame on April 30, 2013, 10:15:08 PM

Quote from: Rampion on April 30, 2013, 09:18:17 PM

Crazyates, do you work for BFL?

The OP declared interested in buying a Bitforce 5GHs, and asked: do they ship now?

It's obvious that an unit bought now WILL NOT ship now. It will takes MONTHS to ship. That's the reality, no need to play games.

BFL had more success in creating a cult than in creating products... and I guess they are well aware of it and exploiting it for their benefit.
That's how weak minds work: If they retract their decision it would be a tacit admittance of making a stupid decision, therefore they defend their bad decisions by all means possible, to the point that when all rational arguments are exhausted they appeal to fallacies and rhetorical devices to defend the indefensible.

This stupid human weakness is exploited a lot in the infamous Nigerian scams, and in many other type of scams.
They trapped people between impossible decisions, between correcting themselves and looking stupid or staying dumb and looking stubborn.
The latter resolution affects less their egos, so that's the road they take.

Nobody wants to admit to be wrong, and as long as that's the case, they will stay trapped in their mediocrity.

I also took a gamble with BFL. I knew it was a gamble, and I decided to take it anyway. I'm loosing, and I'm loosing twice because I decided to pay in BTC (it felt right to support BTC economy, now I know I was plainly stupid as they get fiat from Bitpay in any case).

But at the end of the day, I acknowledge this loss I wittingly exposed myself when taking this gamble, and I move on and I acknowledge I was mistaken. No need to have the Stockholm Syndrome. No need to tell to a new user "They are shipping now!" when he says that he is interested in buying a BFL miner today. Because that's a LIE. I feel better if others don't make the same mistake, it feels very unfair when I see how they still suck new users with the "we're shipping soon" BS.

Thus, I don't understand crazyates position, unless he is paid by BFL.

No, I'm not paid by BFL. I just think it's funny when you state two opposites, and claim they're both true.

And Bits, you're assuming that I'm either A) too stupid or B) too delusional to see what's happening with BFL. Just like Rampion, I'm not happy. I haven't been happy for months. I also paid in BTC, so a refund would be a slap in the face. My only real option is to hold onto my early pre-orders, and mine those BTC back.

Do I wish I'd of bought from Avalon? Sure. Hell, I'm even thinking at this point my hundreds of BTC should have been used to buy GPU rigs! But hindsight is 20/20, and just because I still think of BFL as a legitimate business located in Kansas (who's now shipping the first of their ASICs) doesn't mean I'm retarded or ignorant or about to send my bank info to a Nigerian scammer.

Sorry buddy, but I've been hearing the same comments about BFL from people like you for over a year now, before they even announced ASICs. People still hated them back when they were only selling FPGAs, and what-do-ya-know their FPGA Singles have been hashing away nonstop since I bought them. After all the hate, I'm kind of sick of it.

I feel your pain (part in bold), it's the same for me too. Anyhow, this does not change the fact that its fair to tell clearly to new users that they won't get their units any time soon if they order now. This is a fact. If they were really shipping orders placed now, both you and me could order some Singles (which are very reasonably priced for their hashrate) and try to recoup our initial BTC investment paying in fiat for this new units. But no, we know that the Singles dont even exist yet, that our units could still take AGES to arrive, let's don't even imagine about an order placed TODAY.

We have to face reality... And ridiculous claims as per "they are shipping" are just confusing uninformed users, which can also be easily blinded by greed.