Quote from: Moloch on July 10, 2017, 04:23:00 AM

Having more children doesn't mean shit if those children become Atheists, now does it?

If Christians are out-breeding Atheists as you claim, why is there a HUGE rise in Atheism lately? Can you explain?

Your propaganda is so easily debunked a child could do it... hell, national geographic debunked your nonsense:
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2016/04/160422-atheism-agnostic-secular-nones-rising-religion/

Okurkabinladin wrote up a nice reply to this National Geographic article. I cannot articulate this issue better then he did.

Quote from: Okurkabinladin on May 06, 2017, 03:44:21 PM

Time already tells,

we have reached high mark of secularization and witness tide turning back.

Kaufmann addressed all those points of National Geographic article and more

"As Arthur Brooks of Syracuse University recently wrote in the Wall Street Journal, if you picked 100 unrelated politically liberal adults at random, you would find that they had, between them, 147 children. If you picked 100 conservatives, you would find 208 kids. Thats a fertility gap of 41 per cent. Given that about 80 per cent of people with an identifiable party preference grow up to vote the same way as their parents, this gap translates into lots more little Republicans than little Democrats to vote in future elections."

Yes, from secular point of view you can argue, that non-believers can through apostacy of believers postpone their demographic demise by cannibalizing existing denominations. As has happened in eastern Europe during communism. But you wont solve fundamental problem of self replacement through fertility and you also lack any sort of fail safe (if we discount state terror) to stop returning individuals to their respective faiths.

Quote from: Okurkabinladin on May 06, 2017, 12:26:43 PM

I am that I am. I chose.

My return to God from nihilistic positions, that engulfed the West like a cancer took several years, Stats. And it has to some degree purely rational basis. I witnessed time and time again "scientists", who tried to understand desert by counting every single stone in it. It was not problem of the methodology, but of their choices, of their resignation on any non-materialistic argument. Without faith in what you do, all your work loses purpose besides feeding you. Degrading you in process from human being created in His image to something more akin to beast with large cranial capacity.

Faith forms culture, culture forms civilization. Civilization gives a Man purpose. When the faith dies, so does the culture and when culture is replaced civilization ends. Then men start to die. - Patrick Buchanan

Even atheist or rather agnostic greatly benefits from moral compass of religion and faith, as it provides for social stability, hope and drive. Giving entire culture what could be described as "soul". Marxists like Fromm and Freud understood this, as did scientists like Darwin and Newton.

I come from the most agnostic, godless place on planet, Stats. And I have witnessed how the place, without faith that formed its culture for the past millenia, slowly turned to Animals farm. Youngest being the hardest hit. Every generation in western Europe is now by full third (!) smaller than the previous one despite peace and welfare and health care. As I saw with my compatriots at foreign owned factories, women sell themselves to highest bidder, while men spend all their income on gambling and paying back high interest loans. Sounds almost like Bitcointalk, right? They dont do it for any purpose, but to feed themselves.

From industrial heart of Europe, into place full of aging, fearful corporate slaves, that wait for highest bidder. Fukuyama was indeed right, his "Last men" cannot be fought on battlefield by "barbarians". However, these "Last men" that I turned my back to also fail to do most most basic of things, that Darwin demands of victors in evolutionary race. Offspring. Because they have only interests, not beliefs. As did Greco-Romans before their demise.

Thats one of the points, why I personally chose to become "born again". I have grown up among secular liberals, saw their fashionable cults masquerading pointless materialism. And saw it for what it is. Nails to the coffin of our culture. I would hate the sight of my children as the "Last men".

If secular liberalism has any future, than why its adherents arent even able to replenish their own numbers? I already mentioned, that sir Darwin was anglican, yes? Well, atheists love to turn to him as a reference aswell. Will you? For a materialistic proof, friend.

Stats, you can look at the following as a list of developed, secular countries. Or as a graveyeard of their respective cultures and tribes. It is your choice. Guess, where is my homeland on the list? The very existence of these facts disprove that you can build anything that survives you on reason alone. It is against human nature. And therefore "science" aswell.