Quote from: JayJuanGee on July 12, 2017, 12:38:04 AM

Quote from: The One on July 12, 2017, 12:06:14 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on July 11, 2017, 11:20:27 PM

Quote from: The One on July 11, 2017, 09:38:18 PM

Quote from: BillyBobZorton on July 11, 2017, 04:09:00 PM

Quote from: ComputerGenie on July 11, 2017, 03:01:31 PM

Quote from: BillyBobZorton on July 11, 2017, 02:58:45 PM

In a couple of years we will have lightning network....

* ComputerGenie hopes that in a couple of years everyone will finally understand that LN isn't part of Bitcoin, that LN doesn't serve the needs or uses of the vast majority of Bitcoin users, and that LN isn't part of Bitcoin. Undecided

How do you know what the vast majority of bitcoin users want? Speak for yourself.

What the majority of bitcoiners sure don't want is piece of shit software rushed in a couple of months to hardfork bitcoin into two coins collapsing the price, that is what they don't want.

People that have a lot of money invested in bitcoin and therefore got the most skin in the game, do NOT want this stupid hardfork nonsense.

I couldn't care less about segwit, LN or anything else, bitcoin must not fork into two bitcoins, and big holders will not allow this.

Nobody holding big amounts wants a centralized network with big blocks. Bitcoin as store of value > Bitcoin as Paypal 2.0. In order for Bitcoin to stay a store of value, it must have a decentralized network, not a network run by a couple corporations.

No amount of fake spam and FUD will fork Bitcoin, the sooner you understand this reality the better.

Therein lies the problem. Bitcoin as store of value is a ponzi scam, as there is no tangible goods, like gold which can be used for others things. Bitcoin must be both, a store of value and peer to peer payment.

Therein lies the problem when folks come to the space and try to assert that bitcoin is deficient in one way or another and suggest that it "must be" something that is within their thinking about it.

The fact of the matter is that either you like it or you don't and either you find utility in it or you don't. In that regard, why the fuck has bitcoin been expanding in value for more than 8 years, because a variety of people are finding value in it, no?

I'm sure that you have heard of the concept that something is as valuable as what people are willing to pay for it? You have also heard of digital scarcity, right? Seems to me that there may continue to be short term ups and down in BTC prices, but it also seems that it is going to continue to go up in value in spite some of the controversies regarding segwit, 2x, hardfork and governance.

The value of BTC goes up when there is more interest from new users. I would surmise most new users in the last 2 years are only here for short-term profit via speculation and at some point they will cash out. The rest want to use BTC as a payment and store of value - the value can only go up to a certain limit, unless new users wanting to use BTC as intended and not as a short-term speculation, come in then the value will keep going up. The currents users are mostly libertarians, people who understand that fiat money is crap and computer geeks. Bitcoins needs common people to understand and use BTC. Greater adoption rate is the only way forwards. 1mb block limit is so laughable and stupid and worry about the network is utter tosh. Most of us can download 1mb in less than a second.

It sounds like you learned your talking points well, and it also sounds like you are caught upon trying to prescribe bitcoin rather just accepting and recognizing value in bitcoin as it is and as it is evolving.

Evolution takes time, and rome was not built in a day... There are all kinds of ongoing developments, expansion and adoption that is likely going to continue to evolve the whole system..

So your suggestion that bitcoin is broken or deficient because it does not adequately compete with Visa comes off as a load of propagandistic and premature nonsense.. Bitcoin is way to immature to be even striving to compete directly with such a large system - but that does not mean that bitcoin does not have value for what it is - a decentralized immutable secure storage and transfer of value... think of all the power of that? No other system comes close to bitcoin in terms of the exact thing that it is providing at this moment - even if it remains a "work-in-progress."

I never suggested that.