Quote from: Marrs on May 08, 2013, 06:24:44 PM

Quote from: KS on May 08, 2013, 08:52:38 AM

I'm not sure what you're saying. Even if BKKcoins needs to add 10 or 20 or 30 USD in the BOM, say for cooling, then end price for a 240 chips machine will be around (lazy math coming) 15*400 USD = 6000 USD, without shipping and PSU. That's bang on with the 75BTC (8475 USD) that Avalon is asking, at the current BTC/USD value (around 113 as of this post), assuming Avalon wants to make a profit, 30%-40% seems like a reasonable markup (6000*1.30= 7800 USD, 6000*1.40 = 8400 USD).

BFL OTOH is so much cheaper it's scary. Maybe they figured they could release their ASICs at those prices and totally underestimated the demand. Now they realize you actually need a whole infrastructure behind their production, probably need to hire more ppl and have generally increasing costs (not to mention their engineering blunders). Ramping up fast is messy. and costly.

I think BKKcoins is in the right numbers, ballpark with Avalon. BFL is so much cheaper it is actually worrying.

Avalon was expecting to make a profit when they planned to sell round 2 for $1500.

They were expecting competition at that point. When the competition failed to materialize, they jacked the price up as high as they believed they could get people to swallow. Everything above $1500 is monopoly rent for Avalon.

BKK's price comes close to Avalon's because the majority of their cost is Avalon's chip, which are probably making Avalon even more monopoly profit than their finished products.

I have no problem with Avalon making the money that they're making. They deserve it for beating the competition to market by such a huge margin of time. But don't think their prices are anywhere even close to their costs.

This^^

You can't assume that the retail price people are paying for Avalon's chips reflect Avalon's cost. Probably half what they're selling them for is profit.

Hence, Avalon's cost per unit is going to be less, overall, than the DIYers who are paying a markup on the chips, and then a markup on the boards to those who have spent the time to create them.

Avalon is pocketing the markup on the chips, as well as the rest of the hardware components on what they sell, so they'd be turning a handsome profit even just selling at what DIY would cost.

I'm fully capitalist, so I have no problem with them making as much profit as the market will bear, but comparing DIY cost as a basis for determining Avalon's cost is short-sighted at best. Avalon is selling for so much more because they CAN. They have a product in hand that nobody else can really compete with at this point. Why would they sell it any cheaper? If/When BFL gets their asses in gear and starts shipping a product, Avalon will have to bring their prices down to whatever the market forces are driving.

[Full disclosure, I have an order with BFL, and I have a chip order in with Avalon]. Personally, I hope BOTH companies start shipping product again ASAP, as I'd like to be mining with both. Wink