Quote from: Preventative.Measures on August 11, 2017, 08:19:18 AM

I don't know why you're calling me out with that sort of language. I sincerely want this project to succeed. I also don't think you quite understand my concerns as you don't address them directly. I feel, in practice, no one will buy inexpensive items because it's silly to put down a deposit on a $4 item. And I feel, in practice, no one will buy expensive items because putting a chunky deposit down might be out of possibility for many, or may seem absurd or unfair. In a very real way, people are losing money by having it tied in limbo and I feel most understand that on a visceral level even if it's not something everyone can articulate.

Regarding a scamming buyer, whats to stop someone from opening burner accounts and getting a bit of rep with the intention of ripping off a seller who doesn't require a full deposit? I didn't understand your response?

Who backs the bonds? Who foots the bill if the bond buyer renegs?

I ask simply how can you deliver in practice, how does it work..and have yet to get a straight, concise answer that makes sense when applied to the chaos of real-world markets and irrational actors.

Where's the whitepaper? For what passes as a whitepaper these days you can [and should] outline the broadstrokes for idiots like me. Saying you don't want people to copy your work is a silly reason not to draft a whitepaper. It's like that wannabe writer everyone knows who won't share his idea cause someone will steal it!!! Roll Eyes

Fear of mimicry is really just the fear someone else will do it better. It speaks to a lack of confidence in the execution.

If this thing is almost done why can't you or any of your myriad supporters explain how double deposit works in practice, and why people will choose to use it over existing players in this space. Zero fees is a good place to start but it's not enough to entice the first wave of people IMO.

I'm not up on the etiquette around here...in fact it's a lack of general etiquette that keeps me away. If this thread is merely to pat one another on the back then forgive my intrusion. However I assumed this was a place to engage in informed discussion. I'm not a rich person and chose to back this project with what few spare shekels I have because I found the goals relatable and respected the perseverance and seeming integrity of the dev. Starting to feel like I've made a mistake.

Sorry but you initiated with poor etiquette. Regardless I'm happy to answer your questions. Again... I did respond we have had these types of questions before over the years. I'm not sure why I need to whitewash myself or sugar coat everything. This is a great system. Please forgive me if I was uncouth certainly wasn't my intention.

So to respond... there is a rep system. Why would nobody buy an inexpensive item? A small $4 deposit on a $4 item is perfectly fine. We have had tons of items sold this way. Also we have done in practice very large transactions up to 5,000 dollars. Mostly cash deals coins for cash. There is no company you can trust to properly handle cash deals as even Coinbase is known to shut down and confiscate funds. This works, it's peer to peer and makes theft profitless. And we have used it this way, successfully (we really need a testimonial video).

Now lets say you are involved in a 10k deal, even a deposit of 2500 should be no issue here. Everything revolves around the evidence of your previous deals.

For example, lets say you did 10 deals but lost the 11th. Okay so now that shows on the blockchain (not the contract but the explosion and public key)... people will know immediately you lost your last deal. They may require a higher bond. If you lose 2 deals in a row, then they may even demand higher bonds and so forth.

Okay you asked "who foots the bill"... nobody. This ELIMINATES middle men. There is no judge, no juror who by the way are usually wrong and just guess. There is no justice in this world we are trying to bring that back. When a contract blows up BOTH buyer and seller lose funds.

Think of this analogy, both of your children are fighting. One is lying but you can't find out who. So, you punish both. You kindly explain "I know one of you are telling me the truth and I think I know who it is, but this way both of you will know not to lie as it will never favor you. If I was to choose, then I might choose wrong and reward the one who lies so I reward neither in order to never incentivize a lie."

Nobody loses money by having funds in a contract, they get it back when the deal is over. As you said when it is in limbo it's really no big deal because their daily volume of sales will not usually exceed what they have in the bank. Power sellers who sell 1000s of items a year only maybe sell a few items a day, which based on their net would be nothing (probably not even 5% of the money in their bank).

A power seller would probably not be asked for a high deposit either even lessening that burden further. Think of this like a trust building exercise. We find two strangers, one is a thief one is honest. They enter traditional double deposit, the theif has no chance to win with a profit, he concedes to accept it. After the thief has done 1000 deals, well his deposit requirement may cut down to only 10%... but even so, he is STILL losing if he defaults.

There is really no profit incentive to cheat regardless of deposit levels. When I said "go into a DDE contract with me, if you think you have the guts to blow one up I challenge you to" it wasn't meant to put you off. On the contrary, you can see yourself the power of this system and sometimes seeing is believing. I certainly wouldn't blow up a contract(unless I was forced to) and to my knowledge no Bitbay contract has ever blown up.

Whitepaper is here:
https://davtonia.com/blackhalo/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/whitepaper_twosided.pdf

It's not on the site although thanks we should add it, this is my paper from 2014, I've been around for a long time man. BitHalo(my other software) was the first smart contracts on any blockchain a year before Ethereum.

I'm definitely NOT afraid of mimicry let along anything. It's been like this for a while now, we have a working product and it's just a matter of fact that crypto has no chargebacks, there is nobody to save people from theft. We have a solution, I think it should be the industry STANDARD. Consider almost 50% of all bitcoins have been stolen to 3rd party escrow hacks! Finally we have solved a problem challenging mankind for millennia. Do I expect it to change overnight? No, but I've been fighting until my fingers bleed to educate people on it. That is because it's for a cause bigger than myself. This definitely isn't about me. It's about an idea and "Ideas are bulletproof". It's important and it is a proposal to change how things are agreed to. Agreement is the foundation of almost everything in society. If we can just get that to favor honest people it would be an awesome shift in paradigm.

Nobody is really patting anyone on the back. Sure there are some very nice things said here and I fully appreciate it to the highest degree. And yes we have a very bullish and supportive community but they have been around for years. A lot of the people here could answer these questions on their own, they know it by heart.

So don't get the wrong impression my friend. I'm extremely busy and I will come by, answer things and sometimes put a new spin on my answer to show the various perspectives and angles to why this is such an important change. The community can answer these questions and they want to engage in debate (as long as it's not against people who have bad intentions) which I'm assuming your intentions are great. So yes please keep the questions coming. Nobody here is afraid of debate and it keeps us engaged and helps improve the product. Just realize when I'm here responding I'm not coding. So I have to do my job too.

FYI, if I don't answer, I'm busy coding or managing our slack so if someone wants to chime in please do.