Quote from: Ryu.Hayabusa on May 09, 2013, 09:49:33 AM

Quote from: Sou on May 09, 2013, 04:34:31 AM

In the spirit of fairness; how about when the time comes you are accepting preorders you do it in sort of a raffle. I'm guessing the wave of people jumping at the chance to preorder one will be way more then whatever can be manufactured. Even if i was one of the many that didn't get a winning spot for a preorder i'd be fine knowing it was simply a matter of luck, and not because i didn't jump in on the first ten minutes of the announcement or because three guy ran in and ordered them all.

But in reality, this isn't how normal business is conducted. Microsoft, Sony, HTC, Game Developers, etc. do not raffle pre-orders. They have a set amount of say the "limited edition", the more abundant "regular" edition, and the super rare "elite" edition, or whatever. If I was to walk into a gamestop say, and ask to pre-order a game and was told "you have to enter a raffle to even see if you're going to be able to," I would walk out immediately and I wouldn't purchase that game in retaliation to the ridiculousness that is the raffle.

Honestly if you're late to the game, then why should you get the same benefit as those who did their diligence. I'm all for limiting the number that can be ordered per customer, so one can't buy 1000 units and make everyone down the line wait, but it should be FIFO.

Now for BFL, it was handled poorly, those who did pre-order way in advance obviously are at an advantage, but this is not the fault of the customer, more so it is of the company. If for instance you have a 3 month pre-order wait time before release date, and you know you can produce 10k units in 3 months, then set the pre-order limit to 10k units. After that you can either have another pre-order round for the next batch, or just have the item as out of stock until they arrive.

If you announce a pre-order in advance, then how is it not fair to everyone? Everyone who is keeping up with this will be informed, and can then either purchase a pre-order when available or not. If the pre-order units run out, that's just what happens, wait for the next time its available.

Edit: Also, if the pre-order isn't a crazy long wait, then auctioning wouldn't be near as big of issue as it is with BFL.

Excellent points!

I had actually not considered the real problem with BFL was simply the length of the pre-order campaign. Ours would certainly not be running for a year, probably more like 1-2 months at most with a production plan already secured ahead of it, so once funds are secured production would begin immediately.

So, no raffles or randoms, we just need to be sure to keep the campaign short. BFL got way ahead of themselves that bred many other issues and a large amount of mistrust in that year long wait. We don't want that, you don't want that, which is why we're being careful not to go that route.

Quote from: dan99 on May 09, 2013, 03:32:24 PM

Quote from: Magnate on May 09, 2013, 01:25:57 PM

Quote from: Operatr on April 10, 2013, 08:55:18 AM

1. Do you think the market and community is ready for FPGA Litecoin?

2. Is there definite interest in FPGA Litecoin machines? Would you buy one if the price was reasonable? What is reasonable?

3. Would you pre-order one to support first round funding for prototyping and first wave production?

1) Yes scrypt mining is pretty mature and popular. There are more than enough people investing in GPUs and tuning them to get the peak performance. If you made a good FPGA scrypt miner at the right price, people would buy them.

2) Just answered that. If your FPGA miner was well priced per hash, used less power per hash, and was neat and tidy to coordinate people would go for it.

3) Would pre-order to fund prototyping, but once you had development boards with guys like Kano who could review and give an opinion I would pre-order to help fund the building of a batch of chips and boards.

My reason for this point to pre-order:
-scam avoidance
-knowledge of a time frame and proven performance. Just look at BFL. Completely screwed up both the period of time to finish the design, then completely screwed up the time line to production, then completely screwed up on end performance. If somebody like Kano would turn around and say "boards look good for X/Y/Z performance software should be finalised soon and board designs look mature enough for production" then I'm happy to part with some cash.
-somebody else might come along with a better offer while you are trying to get to market. I'll hold onto my coins until I know I'll get the best product in the short term.

Now if you went for a raffle - no way. If I front money right away before somebody else who waits til the week before shipping I should get my gear before they do. If that means the poor cheap risk less baby has to wait a long time, tough so did I from when I put in.
If you went for auctions- no way. Set a competitive price where you are confident you will sell at the rate you can build them, and let me decide if I see that as what I want to spend. I don't want to have to wait for ever until the cash up idiots out there have run out of life savings before I'm willing to spend a more sensible amount. No doubt Auctions are better for sellers when demand is hot, but it doesn't impress me as a buyer.
I would support a limit per customer would make more sense than 1. However you could always order via a friend's/family member's card and address to make more orders.

What would impress me as a price? Well you can get a 7950 for $300 which can easily hash at 600mhs, so that is 50c a mhs. You will still need a host system for a GPU as well as a FPGA board, just you can run more FPGAs per host ultimately. It is likely by the time these FPGAs launch that the 8950 will be out which promises lower power and probably a little more speed (I hear power is more the concern currently). So you would be best to target at most 50c per mhs.
Again a 7950 as the target means 250W for 600mhs -> 2.5mhs per W. You could assume a 8950 might be closer to 3mhs per W. So to impress me on the power front you'd want to be well better than 3mhs per W.

I like the idea of a FGPA with decent ram performance as it opens it up for other uses later. An ASIC could only be used for mining or scypt work, but an FPGA could be used for all sorts of scientific applications later and hence actually have some good resale later. Their flexibility and potential is far higher than low/no ram spartan boards etc.

good point...

We are in fact talking to Kano

There does exist a certain performance target in relation to GPU performance and price are aiming at. I won't say which just yet, but is definitely a large consideration.

I have an expectation of running a tight campaign that is not too long and is only happening when a fully functioning reference board exists as proof-of-work and not a moment sooner. It isn't fair (and in fact fraudulent I think) to be selling what you don't have. BFL sold theirs well before the design was finished and fully tested, which is BS of the highest degree. As a future Jally owner (assuming they ever respond to their support email! Another thing with them that is making their customers nuts...) I know this pain all too well myself. BlockBurner is holding to a higher standard, based on facts and not guesses.

The main site will be down for a bit as I rebuild it and email along with it for the moment, when it comes back later today there will be some new features

Stay tuned